Carbon Fiber Is It For You?

[Tøf]

Carbon doesn’t sound like wood, it’s just different. I also usually prefer the tone of a traditional wooden guitar, I guess mostly because that what we’ve been used to hear and play.
That being said I’ve seen a few guitars ruined by dry air during cold winter, so carbon has definitely its place. And things continuously evolve even in music, that’s how modern guitars came to life in the first place after all

[mountainmaster]

Originally Posted by Tøf

Carbon doesn’t sound like wood, it’s just different. I also usually prefer the tone of a traditional wooden guitar, I guess mostly because that what we’ve been used to hear and play.

True, currently carbon guitars do not sound like wooden ones.
However, just knock on the body of a CF guitar and ask anyone what that sounds like. Exactly! So are the tonal characteristics really that different?

I think it is only a matter of time before someone manages to create a CF guitar with a tone that no one can tell apart from wood.
Even at this point it would be interesting to perform such a test. Would you bet your life on it that you can always single out a CF guitar in a blindfolded test? I know I wouldn't.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

No it is not for me. The only thing that matters is tone. CF does not sound like wood. Like the vast majority of players from the past 100 years, wood works perfectly fine and always has. If you care more about the issues you pointed out then play whatever fulfills those concerns. However, since I don't care if a guitar gets a boo boo and I, as well as everyone else, have taken wooden guitars to every festival ever put on without catastrophic problems, I'll stick with wood and the corresponding tone. Obviously asking this question in the CF section was designed to elicit a specific response.

Tone is big, for sure, but it's the ONLY thing that matters? If so, you could probably do better with a much MUCH larger guitar with all sorts of mixtures of tone woods and new and interesting methods of bracing, etc. Some might call it a piano. But of course other things also matter - playability, accessibility, maintenance, etc.

If your priorities balance out such that the tone you get from a Martin is the most important thing, I wouldn't for a second question your choice. I played em for 40 years and I love 'em. But if I can't leave a guitar out on a stand or hanging on the wall next to my playing area, if I have to pull it out of a case and pull the humidipaks out of the soundhole, etc, it's just simply not gonna get played a lot.

Had a 1968 D28 (I bought it in '79) for about 25 years. It always sounded incredible. It didn't always play incredibly or even well. Because I didn't baby it, I lived in a number of places with various climates in those days. And I had it out so I could play it. And it went through a couple of neck resets and played well for a while after, but ultimately it always turned into a beast.

Most recently had a 000-15M. Loved it too. But I babied it. Ran humidifiers day and night in the colder months and cased it with humidipaks when the humidifiers weren't cutting it. And I way too often grabbed one of my electrics or my dirt cheap Jim Dandy because they were at hand when the 000 wasn't.

So I was receptive to TRYING carbon fiber about a year ago - I didn't even know it existed before earlier last summer. First tried an Emerald X20. It sounded more like my old D28 than my 000 did. Did it sound exactly like a Martin? No, but it sounded a lot closer to a Martin than the Taylor I owned for a while did. And bottom line, it had it's OWN tone which was the equal of any I've played, if not identical to anything else. Ultimately I got an X7 which I like even better. So, to each our own. I fully respect your choice not to play carbon fiber. You're obviously free to respect other's choice TO play carbon fiber or not. But why would you be bothered by it?

In terms of selection bias, I don't read this site based on sub-forums. I just look at the "new posts" and select those that look like they might be of interest. Obviously a thread about carbon fiber is gonna draw heavily from the crowd interested in carbon fiber. I don't think that's a matter it being "designed to elicit a specific response", so much as being inevitably more interesting to those with an interest in carbon fiber than those not.

-Ray

[Captain Jim]

We all get to vote with our dollars. I wouldn't play a guitar that was lacking in the sound (tone) that pleases me, regardless of what it is made from. I would expect someone with a name of Many(Insert Your Guitar Choice Here)Man to prefer that choice. And that's just fine. Some of us here really like CF; some use a CF guitar because it requires less upkeep; some just want something different; some are just curious about CF... and as long as you get what pleases you, we're all right.

I like the premise of this thread.

[steelvibe]

It is for me. How much of what we like in a guitar has visual bias? I think a lot and I've been guilty of the same. We all love the organic beauty of wood.

But just like tonewoods offer different flavors to one's toolbox, CF is the same with the only difference being the material it is made from. Blindfold tests have fooled many of us including professional players. Don't believe me?

Here is a fun test and the reason I bought a CF guitar in the first place. Listen to the following sound sample provided by Al Petteway with good quality headphones. Two of these five sample are RainSongs, the others are a Martin O-28, a Tippin and a Circa OOO. Can you tell which is which? It isn't as easy as you think (i have the key if you're interested in which is which).

https://soundcloud.com/tags/guitar%20comparison

[El Duque]

+1 to that Capt. Jim

I like CF. I didn't know it existed until I started poking around on the forum 5yrs ago.

I went to a local store and picked one up and played it - a hybrid rainsong I think it was.

I was amazed. I wanted one but wasn't going to outlay $2k at the time. In hindsight I should have.

I've since aquired a Journey OF 066 for travel but I'm going to buy a nice CF once I figure out what that is.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by mountainmaster

True, currently carbon guitars do not sound like wooden ones.

What do wooden guitars 'sound like'? Guitars?

However, just knock on the body of a CF guitar and ask anyone what that sounds like. Exactly! So are the tonal characteristics really that different?

Exactly. It sounds like a guitar. Does it sound different to mahogany, rosewood, walnut, spruce, cedar and so on? Maybe, but it's still, unmistakably, a guitar.

Originally Posted by Tøf

Carbon doesn’t sound like wood, it’s just different. I also usually prefer the tone of a traditional wooden guitar, I guess mostly because that what we’ve been used to hear and play.

And mahogany doesn't sound like cedar, and maple doesn't sound like rosewood - unless you happen to believe, like me, that the luthier is the most significant contributor to the sound, way over and above the materials used.

We allow ourselves to be subsumed by myth and supposition. Look at those who break out in hives at the thought of a Richlite fingerboard, or a bolt-on neck, or something other than hide glue.

I foresee a time when we'll have a generation of CF cork sniffers who claim to be able to hear differences between resin formulations and weave patterns.

In the meantime, I'll continue to play and enjoy my 1963 Martin, and my 2018 Emerald X20, and wait, impatiently, for my next Emerald to arrive.

Because, after all, they are all guitars, and if they don't inspire me to pick them up and play them, I don't care what they are made from.

If they do so inspire me - I don't care either

I'm a nylon CF sniffer. I've sniffed a few Blackbirds, a Rainsong, and a number of Emerald's--love that CF smell.

I've been through more than 40 wooden nylon string guitars and believe that many of the CF guitars approximate their wooden relatives in tonal qualities. the Blackbird Rider, for example, is a Flamenco-sounding guitar.

What may make CF better than wood is the ability to tune the material. Wood is tuned with close measurement of the face, well thought out bracing, and so forth. With CF it is possible to mimic just about any guitar tone with weaves, bracing, finish, hollow necks, and strings. There may be more tonal variety available to CF players.

[waterboy]

I live in New England, where the humidity varies from 20% to the 90s. my X7 sits out all year. It's always in tune. it's there whenever I want to play. My 9 year old girl plays it, so does my 13 year old boy.
My other guitars sit in their cases. My classical comes out when I need nylon, my resonator comes out when I need a resonator. My other steel string acoustic doesn't come out much at all.
My X7 sounds great and gets the most play of anything I have - It's definitely for me!

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by raysachs

“...... So, to each our own. I fully respect your choice not to play carbon fiber. You're obviously free to respect other's choice TO play carbon fiber or not. But why would you be bothered by it?

I’m not bothered by anything, let alone what you or anyone chooses to play. I simply answered the question - “Carbon Fiber Is It For You?”. It is not.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

I’m not bothered by anything, let alone what you or anyone chooses to play. I simply answered the question - “Carbon Fiber Is It For You?”. It is not.

Yeah, "Dude"- I get it. I don't like the Eagles either.

No, seriously....I really don't.

[jdinco]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Yeah, "Dude"- I get it. I don't like the Eagles either.

No, seriously....I really don't.

I was on a dark desert highway when I read this....Of course I can't see your Lyin' eyes. LOL

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

I’m not bothered by anything, let alone what you or anyone chooses to play. I simply answered the question - “Carbon Fiber Is It For You?”. It is not.

No problem. I thought I read some defensiveness or implied criticism of CF in your post, but that probably on me for mis-interpreting. It’s good to have great options so we can each find what works for us...

[byudzai]

I used to think CF was the only way to go, but then I humidity-controlled my apartment. Now I think both are fine. But I play my beat up old D28 the most.

[Earthworm]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

I foresee a time when we'll have a generation of CF cork sniffers who claim to be able to hear differences between resin formulations and weave patterns.

That was funny!

I'd love to see/hear your Emerald. I'm in Minnesota for two weeks playing a few shows (Rochester, WBL, and Hudson). You'd be able to play my Rainsong and/or Crowdster. My wife and I are moving back to Saint Paul after six years in sunny San Diego this coming winter (first grandchild). PM me if you'd ever like to get together for a play date.