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  #1  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:03 AM
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Rainsong WS1000 vs CO-WS1000N2 any difference?

What difference does this 2 guitar have? I know the WS1000 does not have a adjustable trussrod. Comparing tonally, does these 2 have any tonal difference? I only managed to try the CO-WS1000N2.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:49 AM
ChunkyB ChunkyB is offline
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Default Rainsong WS1000 vs CO-WS1000N2 any difference?

The concert series has a unidirectional top, and hybrid carbon/glass fiber back and sides. The WS1000 has a full carbon weave top, back, and sides.
I haven't done a side by side comparison, but I have a shorty, which is essentially a concert OM body, and I love it. The unidirectional top apparently has better sustain and more projection than any of the other rainsongs, but that doesn't mean that everyone prefers it. People have preferences both ways.
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:04 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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If you can, try them with fresh strings. The CO top is brighter with more overtones and has some of the visual cues of wood (and due to the lack weave in the fabric it also has interesting variations, defects to some if you check out MF's used ones). The Black Ice versions are reported to sound essentially the same as the standard series, and are quite popular with plenty of glowing reviews of their tone; from which I conclude the lack of popular buzz on the now old news standard series should not be seen as a negative. My main instrument (for the last 1.5 years) is a CO-DR (standard all graphite back/sides with a CO top) which is as bright as an OM and loud as a dreadnought. I previously owned a H-DR which I thought sounded quite close to a Martin rosewood dreadnought. The standard series are somewhere in the middle, which for a tighter waist inherently brighter guitar, might be just right for you. LA Guitar sales is also stocking WS body instruments with CO tops and Hybrid (carbon/glass) back/sides with 12 fret necks (which they would likely order with a 14 fret neck if you wanted it). Yet another interesting option... Jon
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:54 AM
Jim K Jim K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyB View Post
The concert series has a unidirectional top, and hybrid carbon/glass fiber back and sides. The WS1000 has a full carbon weave top, back, and sides.
I haven't done a side by side comparison, but I have a shorty, which is essentially a concert OM body, and I love it. The unidirectional top apparently has better sustain and more projection than any of the other rainsongs, but that doesn't mean that everyone prefers it. People have preferences both ways.
Small correction.

The "Concert Series", has full carbon back and sides (with the unidirectional carbon top) on the models such as the "CO-WS1000N2" and the "OM-1000N2".

The only models that have the hybrid carbon/glass back and sides combined with the unidirectional carbon top, are the Shorty, and the LA Guitar Sales limited edition models, of which there was an OM body size 14 fret model, and the newer is a 12 fret with Shorty neck WS body size model.

I think the new Blue Grass ("BG") model, has unidirectional carbon top, back and sides.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:42 PM
ChunkyB ChunkyB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim K View Post
Small correction.

The "Concert Series", has full carbon back and sides (with the unidirectional carbon top) on the models such as the "CO-WS1000N2" and the "OM-1000N2".

The only models that have the hybrid carbon/glass back and sides combined with the unidirectional carbon top, are the Shorty, and the LA Guitar Sales limited edition models, of which there was an OM body size 14 fret model, and the newer is a 12 fret with Shorty neck WS body size model.

I think the new Blue Grass ("BG") model, has unidirectional carbon top, back and sides.
You're exactly right. Sorry for the misinformation. They look so similar (the hybrid weave and the full carbon weave) that I get them mixed up.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:02 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al89 View Post
What difference does this 2 guitar have? I know the WS1000 does not have a adjustable trussrod. Comparing tonally, does these 2 have any tonal difference? I only managed to try the CO-WS1000N2.
Perhaps I can help.

The main difference between the two models you mention is the top, unidirectional for the CO and standard cross weave carbon fiber for the standard WS. Tonally the CO that you played will sound a bit warmer, and to some less harsh than the standard WS1000, but some do prefer the added clarity of the standard top.

As you pointed out already the other difference is the neck. The CO-WS1000N2 comes with the N2 neck which has an adjustable truss rod and is a bit fuller, whereas the WS1000 comes with the original N1 neck without a truss rod which has a slightly lower profile, but both models can be ordered with either the N2 or N1 necks.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:40 AM
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don't mean to hi jack the thread, but since you brought up about being able to order with either neck, what are everyone's preferences?
Wasn't the reason for the N1 neck not having a truss rod was because it would never need one? that the neck was one piece, and I assume, perfectly straight and not need adjustments? so that any adjustments to setup, etc. could be done with the nut and/or saddle? those of you with N2 necks, have you needed to adjust them? I think I would prefer the N1 as it is closer to my Taylor neck, which I love.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:46 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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I have been around and around on that one. I always thought that the N1 was the perfect neck. I have two Rainsongs I have bought used and both have the N2. I think the N2 on my Jumbo is perfect just because it reminds me of the Gibson J100 I gave to my son. But I think it really is a oddly thick neck someone said it is like a 1959 Les Paul. I really don't know why they went there. Many like it but just as many always comment about the thickness. It is very playable but just to me something I would not buy if I had the choice. As to truss rods I am really coming to the conclusion that they are not really necessary on a carbon and just add to the weight of the guitar. They really are I think a marketing point to get wood players to feel comfortable. I just bought a new carbon doubleneck guitar form Emerald no truss rods and it is fine could take the action easily to 5/64 with no issues and you don't have the weight. They just are not necessary. Steve
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Last edited by Doubleneck; 09-21-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:01 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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The only adjustment I've made to my CO-DR N2 neck was to tighten the truss rod to keep it from buzzing. For the fun of it I did try to adjust the relief in a H-DR I owned on my way to the CO-DR, and I concluded the RainSong neck is much stiffer than anything I ever tried to adjust before. So I loosened that truss rod and brought it just tight enough to sit quietly. Jon
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:03 AM
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That all makes sense to me. Have you ever had to adjust the truss rods in the two you own? I'm thinking I want to order mine with the N1 neck. I'd hate to get it with the N2 and just not feel comfortable with the neck.

Anyone else with thoughts on this? al89 are you close to buying one?

I tell ya, the combination of more choices, and not being able to try any of them, is making this a tough decision on what to order. I am leaning to the CO-WS1000 with the N1 neck, mostly because I am worried the slim bodied CM-OM might not have the volume/tone even though it will mostly be a couch/camping/deck use guitar. However, if I really like it, I will want to be able to be heard at jams, etc.

Hey Ted, I'll pay up front for one, and then send me one of each and I'll send back the one I don't want in 2-3 weeks, hows that?
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:44 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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True confessions on my JM1000 I have no touched the truss rod. On the OM 1000 I did tweak it a slight bit just cause I could. I have since come to the conclusion that if the relief is within acceptable limits saddle adjustments give me the height I desire. In other words the saddle height is much more crucial than the relief. Again if the relief is in a normal range. The Emerald Doubleneck really cemented that conclusion for me.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Here is my take on it. It's better to have a truss rod and not needed than to not have one and need it so unless the fuller neck feel uncomfortable to you there is no reason not to get the N2. For me the N2 neck feels more comfortable on all the models except the Jumbo which has to do with how I hold it I guess. If were ordering a JM for myself it would have the N1 neck but anything else would be setup with the N2. Having said that most Jumbo I sell have the N2 neck and folks seem to love them.

John, you are never stuck with any guitar you buy from me and I am happy to ship you two guitars with the understanding that you would ship one back, but you would have to pay for both and I can only give you a three or four day trial period. IMO it doesn't take more than a few days to know if you like a guitar or not and I simply wouldn't feel comfortable calling a guitar that has been in a clients home for two weeks new.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:24 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Ted, why do you want a big thick neck on a OM and the thinner neck on a jumbo? We are totally opposite. Nothing wrong with that just amusing to me. I think my N2 feels odd on my OM very playable but just doesn't seem to belong. The N2 makes the .jumbo a Gibson J200 copy. Steve
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2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top
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2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck
2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice
2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD
1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck
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1993 Ovation Collectors
1967 J-45 Gibson
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Last edited by Doubleneck; 09-22-2012 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:50 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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I can read the RainSong website and many postings that say the CO top is warmer sounding than the Standard series top. But the one time I played all three, less than ideal 48th Street Sam Ash in Manhattan with various types of strings with some way too old, I found the CO-WS top brighter and the H-WS darker (less bright). The strings on the older WS floor model were quite old and it did not have the richer overtones of the CO or H, but that might have been the strings. My CO-DR is as bright an instrument as I would want to own, and I would be inclined to not choose the CO top on a tighter wasted 14 fret model. To my ear and sensibilities, I would reserve the term warmer for the Hybrids and use brighter for the Concerts. I've played standard series OM and Jumbos last time I was in the main LA Guitar Center, and thought they sounded great and would never have concluded harsh...but again I did not have fresh strings on the full range of options. Jon
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:29 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
Ted, why do you want a big thick neck on a OM and the thinner neck on a jumbo? We are totally opposite. Nothing wrong with that just amusing to me. I think my N2 feels odd on my OM very playable but just doesn't seem to belong. The N2 makes the .jumbo a Gibson J200 copy. Steve
It's very personal, I tend to prefer a low profile neck on larger guitars but am quite happy with a bigger neck on smaller models. Having said that, I would not pass on a Rainsong Jumbo if it only came with the N2 neck.
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