Solid headstock for nylon string guitar?

[Quickstep192]

Will it work to use solid head tuners for a nylon string guitar?

I'm embarking on a crossover nylon string guitar and would like to avoid a slotted headstock if I can. I'm somewhat less concerned about the gear ratio and how many turns I'll need to make than I am about enough capacity on the peg to handle the amount of string that will be wrapped around it.

Thoughts?

[dekutree64]

Probably not. But planetary gear Pegheds work great. 4:1 ratio is just about right for nylons. Not as touchy as friction pegs for accurate tuning, but faster than high ratio machines for changing strings.

[Earl49]

FWIW, I have an old Silvertone folk guitar that normally has steel strings on it. Sometimes I put a set of nylons on if am working up a new tune and plan to play the same short passages over and over - to save wearing through my callouses. It works mechanically on the posts, but a guitar braced for steel strings tends to sound choked with the lower tension of nylon strings. It is also a PITA re-tuning with high ratio tuners until the strings settle in and stretch.

You will significantly narrow your options if you exclude slot head guitars -- there are not many paddle head nylons out there -- but I understand why you might want to.

[Alan Carruth]

Nylon strings stretch more than steel, so you will need to wrap more string on the post to take up the slack. Since nylon strings are also thicker than steel strings you can't get as many turns on a short post, but with the extra stretch you will need to take more turns. Using nylon strings on flat head steel string tuners you often end up running out of post to wind them on.

The PegHed tuners that are often used on Flamenco guitars have larger and longer shafts than steel string machines for flat heads. Also, you can pull the string tight before you even start to wind it on, so you won't need as many turns.

[printer2]

I have a solid headstock and SS tuners on my little nylon and it works just fine. Once the strings are all stretched it does not take much turning the keys and I find the ratio lets me hit the note right on on the first try. I have no problem building another one with SS tuners.

[Quickstep192]

When you say "SS" tuners, what are you referring to ?

As a relative neophyte, SS means stainless steel to me.

[printer2]

I guess I used to think stainless at one time. Steel string,

[Quickstep192]

Hmmmm. Thanks for all the input.

I was wondering..... what if I got slot head tuners like waverly's and installed them in a solid head. The longer shaft would provide a little bit of extra real estate for windings and if I wanted to, I could put a sleeve over them to increase the diameter a bit.

Also wondering if locking tuners would help since it's possible to tension and lock the string in before you start tuning. Actually, as I think about this, it seems that it could make re-stringing easier.

[Mooh]

Lots of flamenco guitars have solid pegheads.

[printer2]

Really not that bad. I have a missing string, I know.

[AcornHouse]

Like a lot of things, the answer seems to be, yes, you can; but, should you? Alan Carruth is a well respected luthier with many years experience. I'd trust his answer. Why do you want to avoid the slotted headstock? Instead of trying for a work around, why not just go for it? As far as using slotted tuners in a solid headstock, I can think of a few problems. Slotted tuners are meant to be seated in a hole at the other end; putting them in a solid headstock, you lose that second anchor and could very easily pull the post off center and cause binding and premature wear of the gear. Plus, they're just a straight post, so slipping is possible.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by AcornHouse

Like a lot of things, the answer seems to be, yes, you can; but, should you? Alan Carruth is a well respected luthier with many years experience. I'd trust his answer.

So you are saying my opinion is flawed even though I show a picture which shows the wraps are acceptable on a guitar that is my daily player and I rarely need more than one turn of the post to get it in tune?

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by printer2

Really not that bad. I have a missing string, I know.

Thanks for the picture. Do you pull the strings snug through the hole when putting on new strings?

[Alan Carruth]

Note that I didn't say it can't work, I just gave the reasons why it's not often done. Yes, of course you can do it by pulling the strings snug before you start to wind them on. You also have to be careful to get them locked properly so they don't slip. Using only a few turns on the post alos tends to put more stress on the sharp bend where the string goes through the hole. Since nylon can creep under load at high stress they tend to break there. Using more turns helps avoid that. There often are reasons behind tradition.

[Frank Ford]

Some time ago we had a solid headstock nylon string guitar in the shop. It was fitted with full diameter classic capstans. mounted sticking up from the peghead. It worked just fine, but got plenty of laffs over how clunky it looked.

So, in short, classic things are the way they are often for good traditional reasons - violate those traditions at your own peril. . .