Applying Effects in Logic Pro 9

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Another question is: Does applying effects through the use of an auxiliary bus sound any better? I could not hear any difference.

Certainly to the extent of the conversation Doug and I had earlier in this thread concerning the sometimes VERY important need to eq effects. Tough to eq effects when they're inserted on a track. The unfortunate outcome is not only do you eq the effect but you end up eq'ing the track as well

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Certainly to the extent of the conversation Doug and I had earlier in this thread concerning the sometimes VERY important need to eq effects. Tough to eq effects when they're inserted on a track. The unfortunate outcome is not only do you eq the effect but you end up eq'ing the track as well

Right, there should be no difference in the sound quality of the bus itself, but you can certainly get different sounds depending on how you configure things. EQ on the bus is one example. Also, if you send a signal to a bus containing an effect that is normally meant to be applied inline (like a chorus), you'll have a different sound, because you'll have the chorus sound, which is a blend of a time-shifted signal+ the original coming from the bus, and also the direct signal on the original channel. Not better or worse, tho, and that might be the sound you want.

[Rick Shepherd]

Thank-you both! This will remain my method of choice for applying effects.

[Beat Poet]

I have a mix of effects on the tracks and on buses, though it's a bit different for me as I just record drums. I tend to have the "bread and butter" effects directly on the channels (EQ, comp and noise gates), while I have reverb on the buses. I also send the full kit to a bus, compress it and sit it in low underneath the clean drums to add additional thickness.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Beat Poet

I have a mix of effects on the tracks and on buses, though it's a bit different for me as I just record drums. I tend to have the "bread and butter" effects directly on the channels (EQ, comp and noise gates), while I have reverb on the buses. I also send the full kit to a bus, compress it and sit it in low underneath the clean drums to add additional thickness.

Yep that's cool Beat Poet. I do want to mention for those that might not yet have a grasp there are several things at play here particularly when it comes to Logic.

Compression, eq, gates, and limiters are generally considered "insert" effects. That is to say for all intents and purposes they in fact should live on individual tracks. The signal flow is most effective if singularly run through any given FX. The real world example would be an electric guitar to an eq pedal to an amp. In that scenario the eq is said to be "inserted" in the signal chain There is always a case for parallel processing but that discussion for another day.

Time based FX's like reverb, chorus, flange and delay have, for many reasons, usually been used in an aux send and return scenario as you have mentioned. That is to say the original signal goes straight to the output but a portion of the reverb is blended with that original signal at some pre-determined output stage. That of course could be a group or sub group as you have also mentioned.

Where Logic (and most DAW's for that matter) depart is with freeze tracks. On large mixes (90 tracks or more) which I sometimes get it's difficult to address all the time based processing one might need before the computer starts to say "no more". Since you can't freeze aux tracks (where reverbs usually live) I find it pretty handy to take what was historically considered an FX that's best left in an aux return scenario and move them to the tracks itself. In your case perhaps a Sound Designer drum room reverb on the snare track itself and then freeze it. If you're really picky that of course would allow the reverb left-right perspective to not only be shaped by channel pans but but reverb pans per drum (snare, tom, floor, kick and cymbals).

Food for thought and just my 2 cents

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Yep that's cool Beat Poet. I do want to mention for those that might not yet have a grasp there are several things at play here particularly when it comes to Logic.

Compression, eq, gates, and limiters are generally considered "insert" effects. That is to say for all intents and purposes they in fact should live on individual tracks. The signal flow is most effective if singularly run through any given FX. The real world example would be an electric guitar to an eq pedal to an amp. In that scenario the eq is said to be "inserted" in the signal chain There is always a case for parallel processing but that discussion for another day.

Time based FX's like reverb, chorus, flange and delay have, for many reasons, usually been used in an aux send and return scenario as you have mentioned. That is to say the original signal goes straight to the output but a portion of the reverb is blended with that original signal at some pre-determined output stage. That of course could be a group or sub group as you have also mentioned.

Where Logic (and most DAW's for that matter) depart is with freeze tracks. On large mixes (90 tracks or more) which I sometimes get it's difficult to address all the time based processing one might need before the computer starts to say "no more". Since you can't freeze aux tracks (where reverbs usually live) I find it pretty handy to take what was historically considered an FX that's best left in an aux return scenario and move them to the tracks itself. In your case perhaps a Sound Designer drum room reverb on the snare track itself and then freeze it. If you're really picky that of course would allow the reverb left-right perspective to not only be shaped by channel pans but but reverb pans per drum (snare, tom, floor, kick and cymbals).

Food for thought and just my 2 cents

Just a quick question on terminology when you say "freeze tracks" are you referring to "printing the track to Disk" to free up DSP ? if so can't you just record the aux track to an audio track? PS I have only used PT so I am not familiar with Logic work flow.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Just a quick question on terminology when you say "freeze tracks" are you referring to "printing the track to Disk" to free up DSP ? if so can't you just record the aux track to an audio track? PS I have only used PT so I am not familiar with Logic work flow.

Well...yes and no. The sole idea is to free DSP but you should know that first and foremost freeze tracks are almost instantaneous. There is no need to sit around and wait for the track to record real time. Secondarily there is no extra routing. I don't have to "create" another audio track, route to it and then record to it. In that process there is also automatic delay compensation. This makes sense because the tracks you usually wind up freezing are heavy hitter plugs..Omnisphere or a verb. Also you don't lose any automation volume/pan/aux sens ect that you've already set. The whole process takes whatever time it is to simply touch a button. Thirdly freeze tracks automatically take care of de-activating the plug-in itself and in the end it's almost as if nothing ever really happened. Press a button and the whole process is done in a blink of an eye. If then there is need for changes later, press a button an the original track is instantaneously back, unfrozen.

It is in my opinion Pro Tools single biggest lapse. Since I use Pro Tools at work and I'm bouncing files to Avid editors ALL DAY LONG I can only imagine how much less work over the course of a week I'd have. I'm certain that the core code of the Digi engine won't let them write that into Pro Tools or they would have done it years ago.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Well...yes and no. The sole idea is to free DSP but you should know that first and foremost freeze tracks are almost instantaneous. There is no need to sit around and wait for the track to record real time. Secondarily there is no extra routing. I don't have to "create" another audio track, route to it and then record to it. In that process there is also automatic delay compensation. This makes sense because the tracks you usually wind up freezing are heavy hitter plugs..Omnisphere or a verb. Also you don't lose any automation volume/pan/aux sens ect that you've already set. The whole process takes whatever time it is to simply touch a button. Thirdly freeze tracks automatically take care of de-activating the plug-in itself and in the end it's almost as if nothing ever really happened. Press a button and the whole process is done in a blink of an eye. If then there is need for changes later, press a button an the original track is instantaneously back, unfrozen.

It is in my opinion Pro Tools single biggest lapse. Since I use Pro Tools at work and I'm bouncing files to Avid editors ALL DAY LONG I can only imagine how much less work over the course of a week I'd have. I'm certain that the core code of the Digi engine won't let them write that into Pro Tools or they would have done it years ago.

Ah ! I had read the term but wasn't sure what it was. So it's more like a bounce to disk button in the track, rendered at processing speed instead of real time and stays in the session ? Sounds like a nice feature .... Thanks