Recommend mic placement for my matched ATs

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Get someone else to play you guitar......



Regards,

Ty Ford

1. This might work to a point but no 2 players sound alike even if playing the same instrument.

The simplest way to avoid trouble is to stay out of the guitar's "nearfield." In other words, keep mics far enough away so as not to have their proximity effect kick in.

[Blessed]

I re-read everything. I'll be posting a two mic version asap. Excellent idea to have someone else play my guitar while I move the mics around. I have a decent pair of AT headphones that I use (why didn't I think of that?).

Initially, I was a bit discouraged after spending the money on the gear and getting mixed results. Now I’m a bit more optimistic that I didn’t make a bad move.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Blessed

I re-read everything. I'll be posting a two mic version asap. Excellent idea to have someone else play my guitar while I move the mics around. I have a decent pair of AT headphones that I use (why didn't I think of that?).

Initially, I was a bit discouraged after spending the money on the gear and getting mixed results. Now I’m a bit more optimistic that I didn’t make a bad move.

Spending about 100 to 500 hours of quality time experimenting with all facets of your recording studio will help immensely.

[redavide]

You might consider making "test tracks". Make several 20 second tracks with your mics in various configurations. Go back and listen and switch between tracks and see what you think . . .

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

1. This might work to a point but no 2 players sound alike even if playing the same instrument.

The simplest way to avoid trouble is to stay out of the guitar's "nearfield." In other words, keep mics far enough away so as not to have their proximity effect kick in.

Of course, no two players play the same. That's not a given? If you try this with a basher and you're not, you deserve what you get. OTOH, it is revelatory and helpful for finding mic positions and hearing what your own instrument sounds like and finding the lobes.

Also, staying out of the near field means you're far enough away so that your space has to sound pretty professional. If you have the money to step into a recording studio, then not being in the near field may work (or not). DOing this at home and you'll quickly hear how nasty your room sounds. Even in my studio, I don't like being more than 18 inches out. Usually 14" and closer. Proximity, however, can very much be your friend, although you do need to be very mindful of that field.

Good luck figuring out an approach with all of this back and forth.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[StudioRay]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Get someone else to play you guitar.

YES!!!

Exactly what Ty said.

You need to find the sweet spots for YOUR guitar, not follow some one-size-fits-all formula. With just a little time playing around with your mic positions, in a few minutes you will have found them. And there's a good chance that they won't follow conventional acoustic guitar mic techniques.

Cheers,
Ray

[Doug Young]

It can certainly be educational to work with another player/engineer. Fran Guidry and I spent quite a bit of time together going back and forth between placing mics and playing some years ago. Listening for the sweet spot, etc. Very educational. But in the end, you'll probably have to find your own spots. Not only does everyone play differently, but I've been surprised how differently people hold the guitar. Fran uses a strap, and holds the guitar a bit higher and more angled than I do. I have a friend who tends to play steel string in a semi-classical position with the guitar at an extreme angle (neck up), so mics hit his guitar very differently. If I placed mics for him, it would be all wrong for me. So if you're going to have much luck with this, find someone with the same touch/tone as you, and also who holds their guitar the same!

[Blessed]

This thread was a sort of reset for me. The suggestions made here are similar to what I've tried before with some success. However, I kept reading stuff online and had gotten away from close mic'ing (which was a mistake) and I think I was having some subtle phasing issues. Eventually my mic placement evolved into putting the LDC @ 12th fret and the SDC over my right shoulder and other setups which were not pleasing.

The original reason for moving away from the close mic’ing is because it’s hard for me to play with out moving around some (even moving a few inches changes the tone). I feel like a robot playing motionless and think it can steal some of the vibe. Can anyone else relate to this?

So, I'm back at it today and it sounds better (to my ear). I’m doing as suggested with placing the SDC @ 12 fret - 6" away and the LDC between bridge and body edge.

Any additional feedback on LDC placement? Several configs seem to work but I think I’ve smelled too many brands of cologne to tell the difference now.

I’ll get some short clips posted in a few hours.

[GregEL]

Might be stating the obvious but try keeping the SDC where it is (12 fret - 6" away) angling the head of the mic towards the soundhole. Experiment with the angle until you find what sounds best.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Blessed

This thread was a sort of reset for me. The suggestions made here are similar to what I've tried before with some success. However, I kept reading stuff online and had gotten away from close mic'ing (which was a mistake) and I think I was having some subtle phasing issues. Eventually my mic placement evolved into putting the LDC @ 12th fret and the SDC over my right shoulder and other setups which were not pleasing.

The original reason for moving away from the close mic’ing is because it’s hard for me to play with out moving around some (even moving a few inches changes the tone). I feel like a robot playing motionless and think it can steal some of the vibe. Can anyone else relate to this?

So, I'm back at it today and it sounds better (to my ear). I’m doing as suggested with placing the SDC @ 12 fret - 6" away and the LDC between bridge and body edge.

Any additional feedback on LDC placement? Several configs seem to work but I think I’ve smelled too many brands of cologne to tell the difference now.

I’ll get some short clips posted in a few hours.

How are you listening to your recordings, i.e., nearfield monitors, how are they placed, headphones, closed or open back , etc.?

[Blessed]

Gents,

Here's a short clip with both mics:

www.blessedsongs.com/files/audio/two_mics1.wav (6mb)

I'm getting closer, it sounds better than my first post. Thoughts to improve?

Thanks,

P.S. For those who asked

Headphones: Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs. I wish I would have grabbed the AThm-50's but my local shop wanted $200+ for them.

Guitar: Dreadnought cutaway, Spruce Top, Rosewood back & Sides

[Doug Young]

You're getting there! Sounds a lot better than the pickup. 2 issues:

You're a little unbalanced, the left side is a bit louder than the right

Th 2 channels have the polarity reversed. You might have a mic or mic cable wired backwards, a phase switch flipped, or something. This may be the root of why you have had trouble getting a sound you like. I fixed the phase, and roughly tried to balance the sides here:


http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/t...hase_fixed.wav

[Blessed]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You're getting there! Sounds a lot better than the pickup. 2 issues:

Th 2 channels have the polarity reversed. You might have a mic or mic cable wired backwards, a phase switch flipped, or something. This may be the root of why you have had trouble getting a sound you like.

I'll troubleshoot using different cables. I'm using two different brands. I'll be miffed if my ATs are wired wrong. I'm thinking cable for sure.

How are you ascertaining the reverse polarity in the channels?

Thanks for the feedback.

[Doug Young]

well, I heard it first. Once you're tuned into the sound, it really leaps out at you. Listen to your original and my fixed version in headphones, or close between your monitors. The out of phase sound just sounds weird,kind of makes you head want to spin :-) But then I checked it with a phase meter. I used Adobe Audtion - it has a really useful phase visualizer, but any phase meter/vectorscope, etc would show it.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

well, I heard it first. Once you're tuned into the sound, it really leaps out at you. Listen to your original and my fixed version in headphones, or close between your monitors. The out of phase sound just sounds weird,kind of makes you head want to spin :-) But then I checked it with a phase meter. I used Adobe Audtion - it has a really useful phase visualizer, but any phase meter/vectorscope, etc would show it.

Good call, Doug.

OP, If your monitors are small enough bring one over in front of the other and play your track. If can virtually disappear when compared to reversing phase on one mic channel and trying it again.

You don't have to be quite that drastic every time you want to double-check phasing, but it's a GREAT demonstration of how phasing can negatively effect your mix. I recommend anyone just getting into recording do this as a learning point.