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  #16  
Old 08-03-2020, 08:21 AM
rmp rmp is offline
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Most of us mere mortals really do have to hear it to isolate the nuances, and the score, or tab just helps us to train our fingers to do the right things.

I've only been working on reading since I started playing piano in 2005, I have been able to translate it to guitar for somethings.

I've only met a select few who are that well studied that they can read the music, and actually hear the phrasing, (and the notes) in their head.

One is the music director that runs the music ministry at the catholic church that I have been a member of since child hood.

This guy blows my mind. and his ear is as good as his reading. I've never met a guy who can read as well as he can, (scary how good) and also, improvise like nobody business.
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2020, 09:17 AM
Lamenramen Lamenramen is offline
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I can read music just fine actually. It took decades but those childhood piano lessons finally paid off in some way as an adult.

I asked the question because yes, I did see how Tommy Emmanuel said he believes in the all ears method, as does Sungha Jung, who was specifically asked how to get good at the guitar, and he said "go all ears". That's apparently what he did, but something tells me that he is one in a million and he'd be good no matter what method he used. He live streamed one of his practicing sessions for him learning a song or just noodling around time and it was not human how fast he was listening and learning and playing fluidly.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2020, 03:27 PM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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Ask Lindsey Buckingham (Fleetwood Mac) why ear method is preferable and won't hold you back.

Ditch reading the music until you have the technique down.

Being able to read music won't enhance your technique (guitar playing)

J
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:35 AM
rmp rmp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGibsonFan View Post
Being able to read music won't enhance your technique (guitar playing)

J
I agree but I wouldn't say to ditch it entirely. It really is something that requires a lot of time, and repetitions so keeping it in the background as something to dabble with aint a bad idea.

it's hard to make a comparison stick, guys like LB have had a life time to devote to it, most of us have jobs to work, houses to tend to, kids to raise. I always used to tell my students, (When I taught) just do what works for you.
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:32 AM
Nymuso Nymuso is offline
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In my opinion we are in the business of creating sounds that are pleasing to or in some way communicate a feeling or idea to the listener. It is incumbent upon us, the producers of that sound, to ensure that those sounds serve the intended purpose.

Therefore I have always, from day one as a newbie, relied upon my ears to be the ultimate arbiters of whether that goal was reached, ink marks on paper notwithstanding.

People have given me arguments against this, but I believe if it sounds right, it is right.
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  #21  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:40 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGibsonFan View Post
...Being able to read music won't enhance your technique (guitar playing)
Once you know how to read, though, you'll have access to a lot of material that will improve your technique if you apply yourself.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:41 AM
stanron stanron is offline
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All the arguments in favour of playing by ear are valid. All the arguments in favour of reading music are valid. If I had to select only one of the two I would choose playing by ear, but having learned to play by ear I then taught myself, slowly, slowly, to read music. I can now do both. It's not all that much of a big deal.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2020, 06:33 AM
latentaudio latentaudio is offline
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Not sure if this makes sense or not. But I can learn a song much better by ear. However having the score helps me to play the song.

Also having a score helps me to remember the song after a while of not playing it.
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  #24  
Old 08-04-2020, 07:47 AM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanKliman View Post
Once you know how to read, though, you'll have access to a lot of material that will improve your technique if you apply yourself.
I totally agree with this and that's where I think I am personally with my playing. I've picked up enough theory here and there but can't sight read on the fly. Sure, I know the Every Boy Deserves Fudge and FACE and I can slowly pick out notes on the guitar, but not in playing mode.

So, when I'm noodling, I do some scales and go back and look at the staff and how the scale looks on paper. It's a haphazard approach but it works for me.

I might have been too strong on saying ' ditch ' sight reading, I should rephrase to ' don't knock yourself out by trying to sight read '

J
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2020, 08:39 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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Thumbs up

There you go!
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  #26  
Old 08-04-2020, 12:03 PM
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SprintBob SprintBob is offline
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I use a combination of tools in learning a solo fingerstyle song:

1. Tab and notation. The tab provides an easy “road map” to get started and I understand music notation to the point where if the notation accompanies the tab, I can begin to understand the melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic nuances. I always try to get both the tab and notation for a song I want to learn.
2. Amazing Slow Downer (ASD) and an MPEG file of the song being performed for the arrangement I want to learn that I import into ASD. I use the ASD software (or app) to play the song as slow as I need to for both listening and playing along to. I can also change the key/pitch of the arrangement with ASD if I want to experiment with a capo or tuning down.

At my age (62), I probably won’t make it a priority with the tools above to learn to read music notation to play guitar or learn to play by ear solely. My teacher thinks I make great progress with good results using the above.
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2020, 10:28 AM
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rllink rllink is offline
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We learned to read music in fourth grade music class. We all learned to play the tonette. I also read tabs well enough. Both of those are good, but I pay a lot of attention to it by ear. I mean, if you think about music it is all about sound, it is not visual. Yet we want to some how turn it into something visual to understand it. So if we can train our eyes to see music, why is it so hard to train our ears to hear it? Something I think about all of the time.
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  #28  
Old 08-05-2020, 10:39 AM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
We learned to read music in fourth grade music class. We all learned to play the tonette. I also read tabs well enough. Both of those are good, but I pay a lot of attention to it by ear. I mean, if you think about music it is all about sound, it is not visual. Yet we want to some how turn it into something visual to understand it. So if we can train our eyes to see music, why is it so hard to train our ears to hear it? Something I think about all of the time.
That's quite true. Just like the ancient Greeks and Romans built monumental structures as well as the Byzantine age. Builders didn't know about tensor calculus, load balancing to figure out things. They just built the structures.

Putting music down on paper is sort of ' Reverse Engineering ' the way I look at it. I'm sure Beethoven first played the piece before transcribing to paper.

Putting it down on paper is a formal way of putting structure to a phenomena just as writing down the stresses and tensor calculus on a building.

J
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  #29  
Old 08-05-2020, 04:57 PM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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Sprint Bob mentions the Slow Downer.

I've heard about this before and it really intrigues me, this is one thing that could probably help?

I'd be curious if others have had success with a slow downer to improve their technique?

How much is a Slow Downer? Or is it mostly just included in a DAW?

J
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  #30  
Old 08-05-2020, 09:12 PM
Lamenramen Lamenramen is offline
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There are many apps that slow down music so that you can learn to play by ear. Audiostretch Lite seems ok to me. Limit is 3 minutes per song in the free version, but all functions are there. Generally speaking 3 minutes of a song is enough to learn the majority of the motifs.

I find that it does help to slow the song down, but you have to be motivated. I'm finding that it does help my knowledge of harmony and the fretboard, etc.
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