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  #106  
Old 07-31-2020, 04:43 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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Originally Posted by cbjanne View Post
Ed's maple guitars are probably not as bright as some others
The conventional wisdom is that maple guitars are bright and thin.
My direct experience with several has been the polar opposite.

Hear what it sounds like and then go from there. No preconceptions allowed!

Cheers,
Steve
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  #107  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:34 AM
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justonwo justonwo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveh View Post
The conventional wisdom is that maple guitars are bright and thin.
My direct experience with several has been the polar opposite.

Hear what it sounds like and then go from there. No preconceptions allowed!

Cheers,
Steve
I honestly think this may have something to do with the visual cue of maple being a light-colored wood. No joke. My Circa is by no means bright and thin. My Blazer Euphonon is a bit brighter, but no more than most tonewoods.
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  #108  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
Thank you for the discussion cbjanne.

I have a couple of spruce/maple flat tops and I’m always curious if anyone has hit a sweet spot with a set of strings that complement the clarity and directness that maple brings to a well built instrument.

I’ve liked Pearse PB strings pretty well. I’ve been thinking about the Monel or D’Addario nickel/bronze NB strings on the next change. I’ll be interested to hear what your string experiments yield.

One thing I feel is that old strings do not do well on maple. I have some other instruments, adi/mahogany for example, where aging strings change the sound in interesting ways. But on maple they just sound dull and worn out.

BTW, are you mostly a fingerstyle player?

In any case that is a gorgeous guitar. I applaud your choice of headstock and appointments. Very best wishes.
I haven’t found that my maple guitars require any special alloy, though I’ll admit I’m not the world’s biggest string experimentalist. I think I’m usually using 80/20s on my maple 000, though I’m not 100% certain. On the maple Euphonon, I’m using medium PBs. That guitar needs the extra horsepower of medium strings. I mostly use D’Addario because the quality is great and they’re easy to find. I tried Stringjoy at one point. Nice strings but pricey and no better than D’Addario, even though each Stringjoy string is lovingly hand-crafted by mustachioed artisanal string-makers (while sipping a $6 latte, of course).
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  #109  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:55 AM
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iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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Aside from the stereotype of hearing with one's eyes, I think the stereotype that maples tend to sound bright in their timbre comes from companies/builders who build their maple instruments as they do their rosewood and mahogany instruments.

The higher damping, subtractive interactive nature of maple with the top require builders to adjust both a bit from how they treat them with lower damping woods. I believe that builders of best maple guitars do this. I also think that there can be significant differences between the common US soft maples (e.g. Bigleaf, Red and Silver), the common EU soft maples (e.g. Norway and Sycamore) and US hard maples (e.g Sugar) in terms of how they can sound.

The best maple guitars that I have played from Bruce Sexauer, John Slobod and Jeff Traugott do not sound "bright". They have a beautiful string-to-string separation and some sustain and a rich timbre. We will spend all day discussing how different rosewoods sound different, but tend to treat maple as a single, homogeneous species when it is not. I hope that you enjoy your new guitar. I have every expectation that you will adore it .
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  #110  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:17 AM
Richard Mott Richard Mott is offline
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What he said.
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  #111  
Old 07-31-2020, 12:26 PM
cbjanne cbjanne is offline
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Great discussion!

Based on what I’ve read and heard (also in discussions with Ed), I too think that there are significant differences between varieties of maple, even more so than between rosewoods. Ed likes to build with European maple, partly because its specific gravity, which he says is just right for guitar making. Also, like said above, he calls its tone very malleable, and sure seems to have found the right way to build with it! The tone of the maple Malabar I played at his shop was far from thin. It had a certain kind of crystalline brightness that I enjoyed a great deal, and that I found contributed to the expressiveness. But it had a beautiful timbre and a robust midrange too, and a healthy amount of bass.

Here’s a good interview video with Ed about one of his maple builds:

https://youtu.be/Kd_QE0ZPVmg
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  #112  
Old 08-01-2020, 07:06 AM
Richard Mott Richard Mott is offline
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What a lovely video of Ed, such an extraordinary soul. One of the finest builders anywhere. What he says about Euro maple is exactly what I’ve seen and heard. Sugar maple is much harder and denser, and the sound reflects this, maybe a little clearer and more cutting. By contrast, Euro maple is lighter and sounds that way, maybe a little more “air” in the sound, perfect for a Claxton. Red maple is softer than sugar maple, and builders like Steve Gilchrist use it when they want to emphasize bass response. I’ve heard silver maple can be even softer, at times so much so that it is not suitable for use as tonewood. Western Big Leaf maple I’m less sure about, although I’ve heard it is soft and “stringy” in texture when carving. Totally agree that it is worth bearing in mind what kind of maple a guitar is made from, the difference among maple species is certainly as great and maybe more pronounced than among the various rosewoods.
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  #113  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:03 AM
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Fine instruments can be made all of the maples. Like many woods, there is significant overlap in properties. I personally prefer the European Maples for some of the reasons Ed articulated in the video. That said, I have both flattop and archtop made using Bigleaf Maple and both are superlative instruments. It is more about the maker than the back and side woods.

Here is summary of common physical properties of the more common maples used in lutherie:

Type———————————————Specific Gravity—Hardness (lbf)—Stiffness (lbf/in2)
Silver Maple (North America)————-0.44 to 0.53——-—-700————-1,140,000
Bigleaf Maple (North America)————0.44 to 0.55———--850————-1,450,000
Red Maple (North America)—————-0.49 to 0.61————950————-1,640,000
Norway Maple (Europe)——————--0.50 to 0.65————1,010————1,538,000
Sycamore Maple (Europe)——————0.48 to 0.62——-—-1,050———--1,438,000
Hard Maple (North America)————--0.56 to 0.71————1,450————1,830,000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Mott View Post
What a lovely video of Ed, such an extraordinary soul. One of the finest builders anywhere. What he says about Euro maple is exactly what I’ve seen and heard. Sugar maple is much harder and denser, and the sound reflects this, maybe a little clearer and more cutting. By contrast, Euro maple is lighter and sounds that way, maybe a little more “air” in the sound, perfect for a Claxton. Red maple is softer than sugar maple, and builders like Steve Gilchrist use it when they want to emphasize bass response. I’ve heard silver maple can be even softer, at times so much so that it is not suitable for use as tonewood. Western Big Leaf maple I’m less sure about, although I’ve heard it is soft and “stringy” in texture when carving. Totally agree that it is worth bearing in mind what kind of maple a guitar is made from, the difference among maple species is certainly as great and maybe more pronounced than among the various rosewoods.
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  #114  
Old 08-01-2020, 01:27 PM
FormerFoodie FormerFoodie is offline
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As someone who has become very enamored with maple, I love reading guitar nerds geeking out on this! Good stuff!

Can't wait to read the review of the incoming guitar!!!!
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  #115  
Old 08-01-2020, 01:29 PM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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I agree with Justonwo on his observation that some of the fiction about the tone of maple on a flat top acoustic is due to the light color tone of the natural wood. People do indeed “hear with their eyes”.

I have a ‘95 Collings SJ in sitka/european maple and a ‘00’s C10 in german spruce/european maple. Wonderful instruments for both fingerstyle and flatpick, btw. I have put them in the hands of a blindfolded player a few times (should be THE standard for judgement imho), and they NEVER guess maple b/s. Usually guess mahogany or Brazilian, in fact.

I’ve been lucky enough to play maple instruments by J Slobod, B Sexauer and R McAlister as well as several Collings, and they have been wonderful indeed. I’ve also played some by name builders that were less than stellar, but that’s not so unusual, is it? I even strongly considered a maple Taylor 12 string (655?) for its build a tonal qualities. I wrongly decided on a 555, now long gone. Shoulda gone maple there. I now prefer CF 12’s, but that’s a whole ‘nuther shooting match.

Of those I’ve tried, the Slobod and the Collings really stand out. I’d dearly love to try that Claxton, having played a couple of his in spruce/brazilian in the past.

As the OP has stated, good discussion here - I too appreciate your thoughts and experience.
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