McPherson Sable or Emerald X30

[esimms86]

Just for clarification, I emailed Chloe again, this time asking about the story on upgrading to fretboard dot markers on an already in stock Emerald. The upshot is that my X30, though listed as in stock, had not actually been fully completed, i.e., the frets had yet to be put on. Once the frets are in, adding fretboard dots are a no go. I don’t know how common it is for Emerald to post not yet fully completed instruments as in stock and for sale. I do, however, recall at least an instance of Alistair, in a recent video highlighting in stock X10’s, showing one X10 that was still waiting for the Krivo humbucker to be installed.

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by esimms86

Just for clarification, I emailed Chloe again, this time asking about the story on upgrading to fretboard dot markers on an already in stock Emerald. The upshot is that my X30, though listed as in stock, had not actually been fully completed, i.e., the frets had yet to be put on. Once the frets are in, adding fretboard dots are a no go. I don’t know how common it is for Emerald to post not yet fully completed instruments as in stock and for sale. I do, however, recall at least an instance of Alistair, in a recent video highlighting in stock X10’s, showing one X10 that was still waiting for the Krivo humbucker to be installed.

Thanks for doing that. I sent an e-mail about starting the process. I may ask if they can tell me what is in production, but at a stage where they can add dots. I want that and a pickup. Nothing terribly exotic. If they had been able to add dots to the in-stock walnut, I’d have grabbed that one.

[DavidE]

I haven't tried an X30, but I love my Sable.

[L3stat]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Sorry if I'm late to the game I was taking one of my AGF breaks. I currently own both The Sable and the X30 but they're apples to oranges different, one being jumbo and the other 000 size...

...It has a nice warm tone, very wood like, and the volume that comes out of the little box really surprises me...

The X30 tone is a little harder to describe for me. It's a warm tone overall but not quite as warm as the Sable. It really has a unique voice. I personally don't think the X30 has too much bass, it's really quite balanced for its size. They did a great job making a big guitar feel smaller with the contours and bevels. When it comes to volume the X30 is not as loud as what you might think. It's plenty loud but when you see the size of the body you might expect it to be much louder than it actually is... ...One thing nobody seems to talk about here but worth mentioning is the X30 has a wolf note on D/D#. All stringed instruments have wolf notes, some are hidden better than others, but the X30's are right in your face...

I think these are great comments and I'd echo them. I had an X30 for a short time before I returned it (thread here) so take my comparisons with a pinch of salt. I've ordered a new Sable with the gold hardware package for the Evo frets. Didn't bother to do a NGD thread, but I'd agree with the many comments, impeccable build, great volume and woody tone.

It's easy to forget the Sable is a smaller guitar, but I'd say it's plenty loud for its size, and understandably softer in volume than the X30. Volume wise it probably matches my old wood OM, with a bit more fundamental focus. The wood OM sounds more "open" but I think this is characteristic of CF guitars. It really shines in the tone department, to my ears more pleasing than the X30 but that's a personal preference. And I'll agree with the comment above that the volume difference is probably not very significant.

My X30 ownership experience wasn't exactly great ("wolf tone" issues with B), but I'd say it's a very comfortable guitar for a jumbo sized guitar. You really won't feel the size of the guitar when playing it. And upper fret access if you need that is great. Pity I didn't get the right one, and couldn't muster up the courage to order another one for fear of going through the same ordeal again. It's great that they would do fretboard markers now, previously it wasn't even an option.

Last comment from me is that I tried the previous incarnation of the Sable at my dealer, that was branded Kevin Michael on the headstock. There were major changes made to the current Sable model (from 2018 on), and these are real improvements. The Kevin Michael I tried felt choked, and I wouldn't have ordered one based on what I was hearing. Thanks to all the helpful posts shared here, I took a leap of faith and ordered the current version blind, and I'm very happy with the guitar. In case you're wondering, McPherson said all Sables branded McPherson are based on the new design, so no need to worry about version issues and new old stock. Hope this helps.

[esimms86]

Please correct me if I’m misreading your post. Are you saying that your X30 had a wolf note for B, while GuitarLava experienced a wolf note for D/D+ ? Did you not have the wolf note for D/D+ ? I’m not doubting what your ears have told you, rather, I’m trying to understand if/why two different X30’s might have wolf notes at different frequencies given that the guitar body is, if anything, even more standardized for an instrument that consistently comes out of the same CF mold. Alternatively, is it possible for a musical instrument to have more than one wolf note frequency?

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by DavidE

It's not the X30, but I played my Sable against my X20 today. I'd pick the Sable over the X20 any day of the week. I never played an X30.

I played an X20, and if it had a rib bevel, I'd probably have kept it. I'm not a big guy at 5' 5" tall, but am athletic and lean, and where the smaller body of the X20 hit my ribs was just an uncomfortable spot. That's one reason I thought the X30 might be a much better fit for me. I figured with the arm and rib bevels, it would be very comfortable to play.

Originally Posted by L3stat

I think these are great comments and I'd echo them. I had an X30 for a short time before I returned it (thread here) so take my comparisons with a pinch of salt. I've ordered a new Sable with the gold hardware package for the Evo frets. Didn't bother to do a NGD thread, but I'd agree with the many comments, impeccable build, great volume and woody tone.

It's easy to forget the Sable is a smaller guitar, but I'd say it's plenty loud for its size, and understandably softer in volume than the X30. Volume wise it probably matches my old wood OM, with a bit more fundamental focus. The wood OM sounds more "open" but I think this is characteristic of CF guitars. It really shines in the tone department, to my ears more pleasing than the X30 but that's a personal preference. And I'll agree with the comment above that the volume difference is probably not very significant.

My X30 ownership experience wasn't exactly great ("wolf tone" issues with B), but I'd say it's a very comfortable guitar for a jumbo sized guitar. You really won't feel the size of the guitar when playing it. And upper fret access if you need that is great. Pity I didn't get the right one, and couldn't muster up the courage to order another one for fear of going through the same ordeal again. It's great that they would do fretboard markers now, previously it wasn't even an option.

Last comment from me is that I tried the previous incarnation of the Sable at my dealer, that was branded Kevin Michael on the headstock. There were major changes made to the current Sable model (from 2018 on), and these are real improvements. The Kevin Michael I tried felt choked, and I wouldn't have ordered one based on what I was hearing. Thanks to all the helpful posts shared here, I took a leap of faith and ordered the current version blind, and I'm very happy with the guitar. In case you're wondering, McPherson said all Sables branded McPherson are based on the new design, so no need to worry about version issues and new old stock. Hope this helps.

Thanks very much! I've been reading the other threads you started, and this is very, very interesting. There's a lot to take in. While I've heard some mixed things about the Emerald (admittedly there is quite a lot of "good" to think about, as well), I haven't heard anything questionable about McPherson. I'm not sure I want to go down the rabbit hole with a company in another country. If I had an X30 nearby to try, it would ease my mind. But without that option, I think I'm better of going in another direction.

[mountainmaster]

AFAIK a wolf tone is usually an overtone. The resonance around D occurs in the lower register. At least it does on my X30. It is the tone you hear when you knock on the body.

From what I can tell this low resonance is what gives the X30 its deep voice. So I don't think this can be easily "fixed". A more neutral low resonance would be nice though.

I don't have the B wolf tone on my X30 by the way.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by mountainmaster

AFAIK a wolf tone is usually an overtone. The resonance around D occurs in the lower register. At least it does on my X30. It is the tone you hear when you knock on the body.

From what I can tell this low resonance is what gives the X30 its deep voice. So I don't think this can be easily "fixed". A more neutral low resonance would be nice though.

I don't have the B wolf tone on my X30 by the way.

That would be a good thing. My wife is allergic to B's, so if I were to get one, it better not have that B wolf tone.

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by L3stat

I think these are great comments and I'd echo them. I had an X30 for a short time before I returned it (thread here) so take my comparisons with a pinch of salt. I've ordered a new Sable with the gold hardware package for the Evo frets. Didn't bother to do a NGD thread, but I'd agree with the many comments, impeccable build, great volume and woody tone.

It's easy to forget the Sable is a smaller guitar, but I'd say it's plenty loud for its size, and understandably softer in volume than the X30. Volume wise it probably matches my old wood OM, with a bit more fundamental focus. The wood OM sounds more "open" but I think this is characteristic of CF guitars. It really shines in the tone department, to my ears more pleasing than the X30 but that's a personal preference. And I'll agree with the comment above that the volume difference is probably not very significant.

My X30 ownership experience wasn't exactly great ("wolf tone" issues with B), but I'd say it's a very comfortable guitar for a jumbo sized guitar. You really won't feel the size of the guitar when playing it. And upper fret access if you need that is great. Pity I didn't get the right one, and couldn't muster up the courage to order another one for fear of going through the same ordeal again. It's great that they would do fretboard markers now, previously it wasn't even an option.

Last comment from me is that I tried the previous incarnation of the Sable at my dealer, that was branded Kevin Michael on the headstock. There were major changes made to the current Sable model (from 2018 on), and these are real improvements. The Kevin Michael I tried felt choked, and I wouldn't have ordered one based on what I was hearing. Thanks to all the helpful posts shared here, I took a leap of faith and ordered the current version blind, and I'm very happy with the guitar. In case you're wondering, McPherson said all Sables branded McPherson are based on the new design, so no need to worry about version issues and new old stock. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by mountainmaster

AFAIK a wolf tone is usually an overtone. The resonance around D occurs in the lower register. At least it does on my X30. It is the tone you hear when you knock on the body.

From what I can tell this low resonance is what gives the X30 its deep voice. So I don't think this can be easily "fixed". A more neutral low resonance would be nice though.

I don't have the B wolf tone on my X30 by the way.

Thank you both for reporting. I thought it was weird enough to have a wolf on D/D# but to have one on B is even crazier IMO. One of my experiments involved changing the stock tusq pins to brass pins which I had kicking around to add some weight to the bridge area. That moved the wolf down to C. Unfortunately for the music I usually play that was worse for me. Can we each list our specs (differences from stock) to see if we can make any more sense out of this.

The 2 X30's I have/had were both royal ebony veneers. My current one has a Barbera Soloist pickup which replaces the saddle, my previous X30 had the stock tusq saddle but I also tried bone. Other than that everything else was stock.

I sent a PM to Alan Caruth before replying to this post as it would sure be nice to have an expert on the topic chime in as I'm certainly no expert.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Thank you both for reporting. I thought it was weird enough to have a wolf on D/D# but to have one on B is even crazier IMO. One of my experiments involved changing the stock tusq pins to brass pins which I had kicking around to add some weight to the bridge area. That moved the wolf down to C. Unfortunately for the music I usually play that was worse for me. Can we each list our specs (differences from stock) to see if we can make any more sense out of this.

The 2 X30's I have/had were both royal ebony veneers. My current one has a Barbera Soloist pickup which replaces the saddle, my previous X30 had the stock tusq saddle but I also tried bone. Other than that everything else was stock.

I sent a PM to Alan Caruth before replying to this post as it would sure be nice to have an expert on the topic chime in as I'm certainly no expert.

Slight and temporary derailment from the wolf pack...

That Barbera Soloist pickup saddle replacement is said to be a VERY nice pickup system. How is it working for you?

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Slight and temporary derailment from the wolf pack...

That Barbera Soloist pickup saddle replacement is said to be a VERY nice pickup system. How is it working for you?

Tony

I currently have the Barbera paired with the Anthem preamp and mic that I took out of my Godin Metropolis and I do like it in that setup. I think the pickup is good overall, it has some really good features and only one that I don't like, which would be a blessing to some. It doesn't make the soundboard 'hot' so it won't pick up percussive sounds so I needed to pair it with a mic to get that capability. That feature would certainly be a blessing to some. It doesn't amplify string squeaks which is a really nice feature. It has great feedback rejection, string separation (probably the best I heard), and would be the least invasive if you installed it passively. Because of the design it might not be aesthetically pleasing in some guitars but it does look good in my X30. For strummers it still exhibits the typical piezo quack that UST's are famous for but pure finger stylists love it. It's not cheap so I personally won't be buying another one and I still prefer the Schatten HFN SBT as that pickup is relatively cheap and sounds close to a mic. Doug Young, who is probably the biggest pickup guru on the AGF, loves the Barbera but he's a pure fingerstyle player. For people who use a pick to play I generally would recommend something else, unless they like piezo quack which, believe it or not, some people actually do!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

I currently have the Barbera paired with the Anthem preamp and mic that I took out of my Godin Metropolis and I do like it in that setup. I think the pickup is good overall, it has some really good features and only one that I don't like, which would be a blessing to some. It doesn't make the soundboard 'hot' so it won't pick up percussive sounds so I needed to pair it with a mic to get that capability. That feature would certainly be a blessing to some. It doesn't amplify string squeaks which is a really nice feature. It has great feedback rejection, string separation (probably the best I heard), and would be the least invasive if you installed it passively. Because of the design it might not be aesthetically pleasing in some guitars but it does look good in my X30. For strummers it still exhibits the typical piezo quack that UST's are famous for but pure finger stylists love it. It's not cheap so I personally won't be buying another one and I still prefer the Schatten HFN SBT as that pickup is relatively cheap and sounds close to a mic. Doug Young, who is probably the biggest pickup guru on the AGF, loves the Barbera but he's a pure fingerstyle player. For people who use a pick to play I generally would recommend something else, unless they like piezo quack which, believe it or not, some people actually do!

Thanks GuitarLuva for that detailed information. Since I strictly fingerpick and don't whack my guitars unless I fluff a note , I would likely be a good candidate for that Barbera. If I ever decide that what I already have needs improvement, I will certainly keep that pickup in mind. Everything I have read or seen about that pickup has been by and for fingerstyle players, so it fits in with what you have said.

Thanks,

Tony

[121]

Originally Posted by esimms86

Please correct me if I’m misreading your post. Are you saying that your X30 had a wolf note for B, while GuitarLava experienced a wolf note for D/D+ ? Did you not have the wolf note for D/D+ ? I’m not doubting what your ears have told you, rather, I’m trying to understand if/why two different X30’s might have wolf notes at different frequencies given that the guitar body is, if anything, even more standardized for an instrument that consistently comes out of the same CF mold. Alternatively, is it possible for a musical instrument to have more than one wolf note frequency?

I've unsuccessfully tried to detect B along with D/D+ wolf notes on my X30,
but I only tried picking (with a 1.00mm pick) the B, D and D# notes, from soft to hard.
I'll report back if I eventually find a different frequency wolf note.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by 121

I've unsuccessfully tried to detect B along with D/D+ wolf notes on my X30,
but I only tried picking (with a 1.00mm pick) the B, D and D# notes, from soft to hard.
I'll report back if I eventually find a different frequency wolf note.

Try those notes on the 'A' string that's where they're the worst. I don't have a wolf on B, mine is worse on D# on the 'A' string, D note on the 'A' string isn't far behind.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Thanks GuitarLuva for that detailed information. Since I strictly fingerpick and don't whack my guitars unless I fluff a note , I would likely be a good candidate for that Barbera. If I ever decide that what I already have needs improvement, I will certainly keep that pickup in mind. Everything I have read or seen about that pickup has been by and for fingerstyle players, so it fits in with what you have said.

Thanks,

Tony

No problem! If you don't play amplified too often than you're probably better off staying with what you have IMO.