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Old 11-27-2020, 05:38 AM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Default Huss & Dalton Statesboro - Review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midG9fBuZSk
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:23 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
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Another great presentation of another beautiful guitar (Fralin Pure PAFs in that one). That's as close as most of us will get to any real world discussion of the higher end stuff, so your effort is much appreciated. Still love my '93 LP Studio, though!
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Old 11-29-2020, 05:03 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Another great presentation of another beautiful guitar (Fralin Pure PAFs in that one). That's as close as most of us will get to any real world discussion of the higher end stuff, so your effort is much appreciated. Still love my '93 LP Studio, though!
Thank you for sharing your time to check this out..I appreciate the kind post.
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Old 11-30-2020, 01:13 AM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Nice sounding guitar, but for the life of me, I can't figure why H&D used a polyurethane finish on $4000 guitar?
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Old 11-30-2020, 10:01 AM
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I should have checked it out at NAMM ... darn... Looks cool and nice to hear it played .
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Old 11-30-2020, 11:42 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
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Nice sounding guitar, but for the life of me, I can't figure why H&D used a polyurethane finish on $4000 guitar?
I'm no expert, but I'm getting the feeling there's a difference in type and/or application of poly used on low-end vs high-end guitars, as more of the high-end folk are moving toward poly for what I assume are good reasons. I'm looking forward to learning more about the process, so thanks for bringing it up. Dale might know, as he's got guitars with nitro and poly.
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Old 11-30-2020, 12:31 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Nice sounding guitar, but for the life of me, I can't figure why H&D used a polyurethane finish on $4000 guitar?
Maybe because it's the most widely used finished in today's guitars and many people prefer it to nitro.

I'm going to be very bold and say there is really no difference in tone between the two. There are SO many other factors that effect tone you could argue to ad nauseum about why one guitar sounds better to one person than another and the finish would be way down the list of factors.

The main factor that effects a guitars tone in my experience is the expertise of the player. More practice produces good tone, that is if the practice is intentional. Less time on the minors and more time on the majors is what all of us musicians need if we are seeking the best tone. If we just want to nit pick things we can't definitively prove then the forums are the place to be.
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Old 11-30-2020, 12:47 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
I'm no expert, but I'm getting the feeling there's a difference in type and/or application of poly used on low-end vs high-end guitars, as more of the high-end folk are moving toward poly for what I assume are good reasons. I'm looking forward to learning more about the process, so thanks for bringing it up. Dale might know, as he's got guitars with nitro and poly.
I'm no 'expert' either, although i have tried to 'educate' myself on this topic as many guitarist do.

I think the biggest difference in my experience is simply aesthetic. I love the look of an aged nitro finish. I like 'honest' finish checking. I also like guitars that look like a million bucks new (PRS) for example.

The nitro on the guitars we tend to elevate to the highest degree is not what's used today on anything.

If given a choice i'd pick nitro more than not..but it would only be for the way that guitar would age over time, more like the true vintage guitars. It would have nothing to do with tone.

I like the brand new 'knock you eye out' guitars too...i don't think they age as well with the poly finish.

I think fantastic guitars are being made of both finishes today with poly be far more popular.

Since you were kind enough to ask, after 45 years of guitars in my life my overarching thought is - buy the guitar(s) that moves you, speaks to you, makes you want to practice and play it - however you want to say it.

The finish will not make you sound better if you never work at the craft of being a guitarist. Nobody will be moved, or care about the choice of finish on you guitar.
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Old 11-30-2020, 12:56 PM
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Now that I think of it, it might be a thickness thing, rather than the material. I know Taylor used to use a 6 mil poly gloss finish, and they were derided for sounding smothered, dead, lifeless, etc. (I have 3 6 mil Taylors, which says something about Taylor, or me).

The lower end guitars have thick poly coats, and I assume that's for nick protection in shipping, keeping moisture out, it's cheap/easy to apply, etc. Taylor's now cut its poly finish thickness in half, to 3 mil, and they advise there may be finish "thin" spots on the guitar, so it's likely harder to do a light poly coat, than a heavy.

I have a Mike Lipe strat copy that is finished in thin poly. It wasn't a $4k guitar, but it wasn't cheap. Mike could use any finish at his price point, but he chose poly.
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Old 11-30-2020, 01:29 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Now that I think of it, it might be a thickness thing, rather than the material. I know Taylor used to use a 6 mil poly gloss finish, and they were derided for sounding smothered, dead, lifeless, etc. (I have 3 6 mil Taylors, which says something about Taylor, or me).

The lower end guitars have thick poly coats, and I assume that's for nick protection in shipping, keeping moisture out, it's cheap/easy to apply, etc. Taylor's now cut its poly finish thickness in half, to 3 mil, and they advise there may be finish "thin" spots on the guitar, so it's likely harder to do a light poly coat, than a heavy.

I have a Mike Lipe strat copy that is finished in thin poly. It wasn't a $4k guitar, but it wasn't cheap. Mike could use any finish at his price point, but he chose poly.
great info...if you make a lot of guitars and pay a lot of people cheap and easy are two great words!
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Old 11-30-2020, 03:19 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by maplebaby View Post
Maybe because it's the most widely used finished in today's guitars and many people prefer it to nitro.

I'm going to be very bold and say there is really no difference in tone between the two. There are SO many other factors that effect tone you could argue to ad nauseum about why one guitar sounds better to one person than another and the finish would be way down the list of factors.

The main factor that effects a guitars tone in my experience is the expertise of the player. More practice produces good tone, that is if the practice is intentional. Less time on the minors and more time on the majors is what all of us musicians need if we are seeking the best tone. If we just want to nit pick things we can't definitively prove then the forums are the place to be.
I didn't say anything about tone. As a matter of fact I have two almost identically set up Zemaitis guitars, one with poly, built on a production line, and one built by a small 3 person shop! The poly sprayed as good as I've ever seen, and the other with lacquer, applied as good as I've ever seen. So I know poly can sound great. And I've modded both of these guitars with the same electronics (Tyson Tone Labs Precious and Grace pickups, VIP 500K pots, and .015 neck pickup cap, .022 bridge pickup cap). They have the same neck joint, top, scale length, strings, and woods. Does either guitar sound better? I guess that would be up to the person playing the guitar. I won't enter a debate about lacquer tone vs poly tone, it's pointless.

What I'm more concerned with, is how the instrument ages, and the ability to repair the finish if needed, as lacquer, to me, surpasses poly in both of these attributes, and @ $4319 I would expect it.

The whole idea of practicing over nitpicking over finishes has nothing to do with what I said. I practice hours a day, EVERY DAY, and make my entire living playing guitar, so my choice of lacquer over poly has nothing to do with that. And like I said, I have poly finish guitars, but I prefer a lacquer finish (at that cost), that can repaired easily, and wears in a way that I like. And no, I don't want the guitar to look RELIC'ed, I actually dislike that to the core, I just like the warm look of lacquer. And I take very good care of my instruments to keep them looking nice. And to me the way lacquer wears is a thing of BEAUTY! That is why I posted what I posted.

Even PRS has gone to a lacquer topcoat on their CORE models for that reason.

I have a 1994 Custom 22 that I've been playing lately that I love tone wise, but it's a quarter of a century old so I would loved to have it age a bit more, as it still looks brand new...



As you pointed out, many people would prefer that a guitar stays looking brand new, and for them, I'm glad they can buy a high end guitar that will stay looking new.

But for me, I think that a lacquer finish goes with the aesthetic of the whole small shop vibe. Especially when obviously using the design of a well established benchmark guitar, a vintage Les Paul. These H&Ds are cheaper ($4319) the the lower level R8 Historic Les Paul ($4999) so I would definitely consider one to purchase if they had the finish I liked. Not an argument, just thinking out loud. I would really like to see one of these H&Ds in a lacquer goldtop as that's my favorite finish.

BTW the reason I was looking at these guitars is that I've played some HD acoustics that I love the neck shape of, and that to me is more important than finish! I've sold two of my historics because of clubby necks!

Last edited by rockabilly69; 11-30-2020 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 11-30-2020, 04:53 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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I didn't say anything about tone. As a matter of fact I have two almost identically set up Zemaitis guitars, one with poly, built on a production line, and one built by a small 3 person shop! The poly sprayed as good as I've ever seen, and the other with lacquer, applied as good as I've ever seen. So I know poly can sound great. And I've modded both of these guitars with the same electronics (Tyson Tone Labs Precious and Grace pickups, VIP 500K pots, and .015 neck pickup cap, .022 bridge pickup cap). They have the same neck joint, top, scale length, strings, and woods. Does either guitar sound better? I guess that would be up to the person playing the guitar. I won't enter a debate about lacquer tone vs poly tone, it's pointless.

What I'm more concerned with, is how the instrument ages, and the ability to repair the finish if needed, as lacquer, to me, surpasses poly in both of these attributes, and @ $4319 I would expect it.

The whole idea of practicing over nitpicking over finishes has nothing to do with what I said. I practice hours a day, EVERY DAY, and make my entire living playing guitar, so my choice of lacquer over poly has nothing to do with that. And like I said, I have poly finish guitars, but I prefer a lacquer finish (at that cost), that can repaired easily, and wears in a way that I like. And no, I don't want the guitar to look RELIC'ed, I actually dislike that to the core, I just like the warm look of lacquer. And I take very good care of my instruments to keep them looking nice. And to me the way lacquer wears is a thing of BEAUTY! That is why I posted what I posted.

Even PRS has gone to a lacquer topcoat on their CORE models for that reason.

I have a 1994 Custom 22 that I've been playing lately that I love tone wise, but it's a quarter of a century old so I would loved to have it age a bit more, as it still looks brand new...



As you pointed out, many people would prefer that a guitar stays looking brand new, and for them, I'm glad they can buy a high end guitar that will stay looking new.

But for me, I think that a lacquer finish goes with the aesthetic of the whole small shop vibe. Especially when obviously using the design of a well established benchmark guitar, a vintage Les Paul. These H&Ds are cheaper ($4319) the the lower level R8 Historic Les Paul ($4999) so I would definitely consider one to purchase if they had the finish I liked. Not an argument, just thinking out loud. I would really like to see one of these H&Ds in a lacquer goldtop as that's my favorite finish.

BTW the reason I was looking at these guitars is that I've played some HD acoustics that I love the neck shape of, and that to me is more important than finish! I've sold two of my historics because of clubby necks!
Great stuff, thanks for sharing some of you musical story!
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Old 11-30-2020, 05:10 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Great stuff, thanks for sharing some of you musical story!
So what do you think of the neck shape, you say it was like a '59 but that term alludes me? As for that little volute at the back of the neck behind the nut. My custom shop Zemaitis has a small one like yours (and Gotoh 510 tuners like yours) so I understood what you meant by that. And I love that, as it gives me faith that the neck is stronger there.

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Old 12-01-2020, 05:28 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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So what do you think of the neck shape, you say it was like a '59 but that term alludes me? As for that little volute at the back of the neck behind the nut. My custom shop Zemaitis has a small one like yours (and Gotoh 510 tuners like yours) so I understood what you meant by that. And I love that, as it gives me faith that the neck is stronger there.

Your PRS is sweet!

I like the neck shape for the most part..a bit chunky for my personal preferences especially at the nut, but for a lot of folks it might be great. It's a good choice for a 'first time out' guitar and I'm sure as they get feedback for future owners they can modify I'm sure to meet specific customer needs.

I've never played a Zemaitis to my memory...looks like a special guitar. The H&D doesn't have that pronounced of a volute but the neck is very solid IMO.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:41 AM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Your PRS is sweet!

I like the neck shape for the most part..a bit chunky for my personal preferences especially at the nut, but for a lot of folks it might be great. It's a good choice for a 'first time out' guitar and I'm sure as they get feedback for future owners they can modify I'm sure to meet specific customer needs.

I've never played a Zemaitis to my memory...looks like a special guitar. The H&D doesn't have that pronounced of a volute but the neck is very solid IMO.
Thanks, all that PRS needed was some good pickups, Wolfetones, and it sounds great now.

As for the H&D neck profile, I bet if you played it every day it would be great! But, like me, looks like you have a few guitars. I think most Les Paul vintage style guitars have too chunky of a neck shape, but I adapt, although, my favorite shape will always be a nice medium C.

I think the picture I took of the Zemaitis volute makes it look bigger than it really is But if you think that's big, check out the volute on my L5s, now it's a whopper, but it never gets in the way, and it's one of the best, fastest, playing necks I own, a Ferrari! I haven't touched the truss rod since I first set it up 6 years ago.






Last edited by rockabilly69; 12-02-2020 at 01:13 AM.
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