Bicycle Tube Question/Poll (slime)

[hubcapsc]

At what point are tires supposed to be replaced?

-Mike "not a wear item? "

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

I know there are some very avid cyclists here. I wouldn't count myself in your ranks, but I do enjoy pedaling my Trek along the trails here in the PNW.

I live on the dry side of the mountains where we have the scourge of western cyclists - tackweed (aka goat heads or puncture vine). As a result, many people use a product called slime that supposedly seals any small tube punctures.

I hate the stuff (tackweed and slime). Local bike shops insist on using slime in new tubes. Invariably within a year it rots out the valve core (presta and shrader equally). Now you have a failure that you can't patch and slime won't fix. Better off using thick tubes and tire liners.

My morning ride with my son (visiting from the wetside) was delayed due to a rotted out presta valve thanks to slime.

Anyone have similar problems with the nasty green stuff?

What model of Trek are you riding? How wide is the rim? What type/width of tires are you running?

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

If your rims are compatible go tubeless.

Bleggh. Maybe if you ride, like, every day or every other
day. If you ride only every week or every other week, the
other name for tubeless bike tires is "flat". Anywho... I
stuck with it for a while, and didn't like it.

I went back to thick thorn-resistant tubes (I used to
get thorns in the Clemson forest, so I had some
of the same problems as the OP).

People say "they're too heavy!". I say I didn't really notice
much beyond not getting thorn flats...

-Mike

I run tubeless exclusively. After a couple of years the tape job and valve can wear down and frequent inflation becomes necessary, but that's just a sign that it's time to re-tape the rim. Otherwise they hold air as well as any tubed setup, which is to say, yeah. You have to inflate or check your tires a bit before every ride, unless you like putting extra effort into your ride for no reason due to higher rolling resistance. But if you have regular "flats" with tubeless, even after a month of not riding, someone did the setup really badly. Really easy to fix oneself.

There are basically two solutions here, the gunk in your tubes and valves, which is wasteful, is unnecessary expense, and can ruin a ride as for the OP, or tubeless. Tubeless has a bunch of other benefits, so it seems like a no brainer to me.

[hubcapsc]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I run tubeless exclusively. After a couple of years the tape job and valve can wear down and frequent inflation becomes necessary, but that's just a sign that it's time to re-tape the rim. Otherwise they hold air as well as any tubed setup, which is to say, yeah. You have to inflate or check your tires a bit before every ride, unless you like putting extra effort into your ride for no reason due to higher rolling resistance. But if you have regular "flats" with tubeless, even after a month of not riding, someone did the setup really badly. Really easy to fix oneself.

There are basically two solutions here, the gunk in your tubes and valves, which is wasteful, is unnecessary expense, and can ruin a ride as for the OP, or tubeless. Tubeless has a bunch of other benefits, so it seems like a no brainer to me.

The thick tubes work great for thorns... they're not nearly
as problematic as tubeless mountain bike tires... they came
out not too long before those fat mountain bike tires that was all
the rage...

-Mike "all the rage for people who never ride in sticky thick mud... "

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

The thick tubes work great for thorns... they're not nearly
as problematic as tubeless mountain bike tires... they came
out not too long before those fat mountain bike tires that was all
the rage...

-Mike "all the rage for people who never ride in sticky thick mud... "

Great if they work for you! Personally I don’t find tubeless problematic, but there are a couple things to learn about setting them up...just as there were when learning how to set up tubes. I just wanted to share in the thread for others that there should not be an expectation of flats as a norm for those not using their bikes daily or weekly. Set up correctly they hold air as well as tubes. I always inflate my tires before a ride with tubes (well I used to) or tubeless to get the right pressure. They each lose a few pounds over the course of a week or so.

The last time I had to address a “flat” with tubeless was on Sonoma mountain in 2018. Went over a big root and “burped” some air out of the tire while running my pressure a bit too low...I was seeing how low I could comfortably run a new set of tires. Two mins of pumping it back up and I was set. I ride twice a week, all year long, and I ride in very aggressive situations. Pretty good piece of mind. Tubeless tires and dropper posts are probably the two most transformative technologies for mountain biking in the last decade or more.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Great if they work for you! Personally I don’t find tubeless problematic, but there are a couple things to learn about setting them up...just as there were when learning how to set up tubes. I just wanted to share in the thread for others that there should not be an expectation of flats as a norm for those not using their bikes daily or weekly. Set up correctly they hold air as well as tubes. I always inflate my tires before a ride with tubes (well I used to) or tubeless to get the right pressure. They each lose a few pounds over the course of a week or so.

The last time I had to address a “flat” with tubeless was on Sonoma mountain in 2018. Went over a big root and “burped” some air out of the tire while running my pressure a bit too low...I was seeing how low I could comfortably run a new set of tires. Two mins of pumping it back up and I was set. I ride twice a week, all year long, and I ride in very aggressive situations. Pretty good piece of mind. Tubeless tires and dropper posts are probably the two most transformative technologies for mountain biking in the last decade or more.

I went tubeless for off road riding 12 years ago, and maybe pertinent here is now 3+ years for general and commute or utility riding. I also help and guide people at scale because I'm a director and builder at one of our region's most popular bike parks and trail systems. It's home to two NICA teams and visited by several. We have bike classes and clinics for hundreds of people year-round. Over and over I help someone with a flat, give some guidance, help them with setup. Getting a whole family or team tubeless is pretty much the end of waiting for people getting flat tires.

For general purpose riding on pavement and all sorts of riding tubeless has been no more interruption for puncture flats no heavy duty tube, liner or slime type cobble/mess. The worst is get sealant over the hole and pump if needed. Not pump up a complete changed tube or deal with the stupid mess of a slimed tube.

Beyond that, it's riding at 1/2 the air pressure that commuting was for most of my life. That's easy and comfy rolling. More important is that's traction and cornering that used to unheard of.

Full disclosure. I don't convert wheels not intended to be tubeless. I only use tires made as tubeless compatible. I mostly use the large bottles of Bontrager sealant. That seems to seal a little better than Stans, and it's easy to get that larger amount at a good price. Their little feeder bottles same as small retail package make periodic refresh easy.

With a 1930 Ford and few months old car, a 60 year old bicycle and late model bikes, the modern wheel, tire and brakes differences are similar. I'm correct to say the Model A is great but not so foolish to espouse it's technology and characteristics for how most of us should operate in the year 2020.

[hubcapsc]

Bontrager sealant. That seems to seal a little better than Stans, and it's easy to get that larger amount at a good price. Their little feeder bottles same as small retail package make periodic refresh easy.

"Stans" is the kind of goo I used.

I still use the syringe/tube thing to put RideOn in my motorcycle tires...

-Mike

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

Bontrager sealant. That seems to seal a little better than Stans, and it's easy to get that larger amount at a good price. Their little feeder bottles same as small retail package make periodic refresh easy.

"Stans" is the kind of goo I used.

I still use the syringe/tube thing to put RideOn in my motorcycle tires...

-Mike

Stans is as good or better than anything. I've used it for years and like I say, flatting and sealing are not an issue. If Bontrager works better, I'm not sure what that would look like, maybe it's better at filling large holes. But for sealing Stans works incredibly well. They're all good at this point, sealing is all about the rim setup in my experience.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/w...orks-the-best/

EDIT: Nope, looks like Stan’s is better at filling holes and about the same at holding pressure. Again, they're all good at this point. https://mbaction.com/tire-sealant-shootout/amp/

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Stans is as good or better than anything. I've used it for years and like I say, flatting and sealing are not an issue. If Bontrager works better, I'm not sure what that would look like, maybe it's better at filling large holes. But for sealing Stans works incredibly well. They're all good at this point, sealing is all about the rim setup in my experience.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/w...orks-the-best/

EDIT: Nope, looks like it's better at filling holes and about the same at holding pressure. Again, they're all good at this point. https://mbaction.com/tire-sealant-shootout/amp/

I'm fine with Stans too but the other seems marginally better with cuts and usually more convenient and cheaper.

[tinnitus]

I mountain-biked a lot last century all over San Diego County with tiny needle-like thorns causing slow/fast leaks and flats - frequently. So I put Slime in both tubes and it helped a lot. After that, I could actually see a thorn and pull it out without letting all the air leak out overnight.

WEIGHT:
With an 8-ounce bottle of Slime, I put 4 ounces in each tube. I didn't notice it when riding, but it was obvious when I took the wheels off for transporting, truing spokes, etc. If a light-weight bike is important (people pay a lot for lighter bikes), Slime will add a few ounces to each wheel, possibly offsetting some benefits of expensive light wheels.

GOO IN THE TUBES:
That was my only bike at the time, so I ran 65-70 psi on pavement and 45 psi on dirt/gravel/mud/sand. Sometimes bleeding air off to 45 psi caused the valves to gum up and clog (standard Schraders, like a car) because Slime is designed to coagulate and "heal" leaks. Not a terrible pain, I could inflate the tire a little first to clear the obstruction and then let off excess pressure.

GOO IN THE TIRES:
Ironically, I had a front blowout on flat, smooth pavement (really glad I wasn't doing 30-40 mph downhill). The tube had a 5-6 inch rip (perhaps from abuse over rough terrain, rocks and moderate jumps). Replacing that tube was a slimy, slippery, gooey mess! Much of it remained in the tire since I wasn't home and able to hose/dry it out. Nasty, nasty process.

BUY AGAIN?
Hard to say, if I were back in San Diego riding thorny trails again, I might go instead with those thick protective tire liner bands. They're only 1.5 oz each. But I'd still be concerned. First thorn through a thin sidewall, I'd probably go with the gooey/heavy green Slime again.

[hubcapsc]

Hard to say, if I were back in San Diego riding thorny trails again, I might go instead with those thick protective tire liner bands.

I forgot about them... I used them too, probably after I used the
thick heavy thorn-resistant tubes...

-Mike

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by tinnitus

I mountain-biked a lot last century all over San Diego County with tiny needle-like thorns causing slow/fast leaks and flats - frequently. So I put Slime in both tubes and it helped a lot. After that, I could actually see a thorn and pull it out without letting all the air leak out overnight.

WEIGHT:
With an 8-ounce bottle of Slime, I put 4 ounces in each tube. I didn't notice it when riding, but it was obvious when I took the wheels off for transporting, truing spokes, etc. If a light-weight bike is important (people pay a lot for lighter bikes), Slime will add a few ounces to each wheel, possibly offsetting some benefits of expensive light wheels.

GOO IN THE TUBES:
That was my only bike at the time, so I ran 65-70 psi on pavement and 45 psi on dirt/gravel/mud/sand. Sometimes bleeding air off to 45 psi caused the valves to gum up and clog (standard Schraders, like a car) because Slime is designed to coagulate and "heal" leaks. Not a terrible pain, I could inflate the tire a little first to clear the obstruction and then let off excess pressure.

GOO IN THE TIRES:
Ironically, I had a front blowout on flat, smooth pavement (really glad I wasn't doing 30-40 mph downhill). The tube had a 5-6 inch rip (perhaps from abuse over rough terrain, rocks and moderate jumps). Replacing that tube was a slimy, slippery, gooey mess! Much of it remained in the tire since I wasn't home and able to hose/dry it out. Nasty, nasty process.

BUY AGAIN?
Hard to say, if I were back in San Diego riding thorny trails again, I might go instead with those thick protective tire liner bands. They're only 1.5 oz each. But I'd still be concerned. First thorn through a thin sidewall, I'd probably go with the gooey/heavy green Slime again.

The high pressure may well explain your blowout.

The conventional wisdom has changed and few up on it ride with so much pressure even with old designs. I still use two old bikes and ride a 26r with 2.1 tires 40 PSI and my road bike's skinny tires less than 100 PSI where old school would have been that or more.

Modern tires and rims for trails would be 21-24 PSI for regular tires, less for plus and fatties. I ride my fattie tires at 4 to 8 PSI.

That's 23 PSI rear and 21 PSI front and 7 PSI rear and 5 PSI front. The not exactly road bike has tires and rims like many hybrid and e-assist bikes. I ride that 35 PSI on pavement and take it down to 25-30 PSI for some non-paved riding. Taking it up to 40 or more PSI doesn't do anything noticeable to the times for rides I do often. It only makes the ride and handling crappy.

Comparing a lot of bike stuff that is not from the past decade or less to anything older can be inappropriate because some components and designs are so much improved.

Being a weight weenie is more silly than ever. A few ounces or even a few pounds make huge differences in capability. In these times is not about shaving weight from crap that was a less than ideal design to begin with.

I'm not upgrading to a new road bike but just upgrading to thoroughly modern tires 3 mm larger and the premium tubes you can still get have elevated reliability and performance.

[imwjl]

BTW, you don't necessarily need a new bike for a big difference in comfort, control and reliability. While some I know went and got modern road bikes I adjusted seat and stem plus got slightly bigger but now common 25 mm tires. I seek out the high quality Michelin and Conti bike tubes.

Another big deal for your older bike is seat. With so many choices find something the right width and a shape that works best for you.

Riding with 20 PSI of air pressure in the tires and 1-3 pounds more bike than some associates hasn't left me in the dust. It hasn't helped how boring and dangerous road riding is but it's something to do when trails are wet or for a change of pace.

[seannx]

One of my sons has a bike shop, and he exclusively uses tubeless tires on his 3 high end mountain bikes, 2 gravel grinders, and his road bike. My gravel grinder has tubeless tires, too. Out of the six bikes, only mine has had two flats. Once, a nail went completely through the top and sidewall. Luckily the rim was still okay. No tire/tube/slime combination would have survived. Recently I had a 5/8 piece of sharp metal bury itself in the back tire. Had to replace that tire, too. He sets up all the mid and high end bikes of his customers with tubeless tires as well