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  #1  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:15 PM
FLRon FLRon is offline
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Default Yet another question about neck action

Hopefully I can explain myself so that the more knowledgeable here can offer some advice.

I am trying to dial in the setup on a Washburn WG-26S guitar. This is basically an OM-ish or perhaps GA size, solid cedar top guitar. It is currently strung with Medium gage strings as that is all I had on hand.

Putting a capo on the 1st fret and pressing down the 6th string where the neck meets the body, I can slip a std business card under the 6th string with the string rising just a hair. Thatís the best I can do as I donít have a set of feeler gages any longer.

Removing the capo, I measure the 6th string height at the 12th fret to be approximately 2.5mm. Measuring the string height at the bridge I get 10mm. The best I can tell the truss rod is adjusted very tightly.

Finally, laying a straight edge on the frets the end of the straight edge falls a strong 1/32Ē below the top of the bridge. I know that is not ideal.

The issue Iím having is that the action on this guitar just seems to be a bit high for my tastes. Iím curious if using light or extra light gage strings would make any difference in the action, or should I be looking at other things on this guitar?
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:28 PM
HodgdonExtreme HodgdonExtreme is offline
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When you put the capo on the first fret and then fret the string at the 14th, WHERE are you inserting the business card?

I just measured 4 different business cards, and their thickness varied between 0.010" (.25mm) and .016" (.41mm).

So, if you're inserting the business card around the 7th fret, and it's LIFTING the string to fit - you're looking at somewhere between .015" and .025" of neck relief... Which is a lot, in most cases. Generally, a good guitar with a good setup will end up somewhere between .001 and .010".

You say you think the truss rod is already tight. Well, it'll need to get tighter to remove that excessive relief...

You also say the action is "a bit high" for your taste. Despite fact it sounds like your guitar needs a neck reset (straight edge points below tip of saddle), I suspect removing that excessive relief will improve your action quite a bit. That, combined with some judicious nut slot filing (if your F barre chord is tough compared to a G or A barre chord) oughtta allow you to realize substantial improvement.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:34 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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If the business card is lifting the string, then the relief is less than its thickness, not more. To get more adjustment out of the truss rod, remove the nut and lubricate it.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:42 PM
HodgdonExtreme HodgdonExtreme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
If the business card is lifting the string, then the relief is less than its thickness, not more. To get more adjustment out of the truss rod, remove the nut and lubricate it.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:03 PM
FLRon FLRon is offline
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I should have clarified that I'm sliding the card under the 6th string at the 6th fret.
I was thinking that I needed to crank on the truss rod a bit more,but got concerned when I realized how tight it already was. I will definitely take the nut off and lube the threads.
As for the nut slots,yes I agree they can go a bit deeper. They are fairly deep already however, whether from the factory or previous owner I have no idea. The first fret Barre "F" takes some effort.
I'll check back after tweaking things some more. Thanks again everyone!
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:23 AM
Tuch Tuch is offline
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Default set up

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLRon View Post
Hopefully I can explain myself so that the more knowledgeable here can offer some advice.

I am trying to dial in the setup on a Washburn WG-26S guitar. This is basically an OM-ish or perhaps GA size, solid cedar top guitar. It is currently strung with Medium gage strings as that is all I had on hand.

Putting a capo on the 1st fret and pressing down the 6th string where the neck meets the body, I can slip a std business card under the 6th string with the string rising just a hair. Thatís the best I can do as I donít have a set of feeler gages any longer.

Removing the capo, I measure the 6th string height at the 12th fret to be approximately 2.5mm. Measuring the string height at the bridge I get 10mm. The best I can tell the truss rod is adjusted very tightly.

Finally, laying a straight edge on the frets the end of the straight edge falls a strong 1/32Ē below the top of the bridge. I know that is not ideal.

The issue Iím having is that the action on this guitar just seems to be a bit high for my tastes. Iím curious if using light or extra light gage strings would make any difference in the action, or should I be looking at other things on this guitar?
Changing the Strings to a Lighter gauge will/does not change the string height!Only the strings 'Tension' changes.NOT the Action!
The Action is governed by
1] The string slot depths-Lower them,lowers the string height at the nut area!only.
2]Reducing the Saddle height-Lowers the string height OVERALL=every fret now affected.lower 1+2=Lowers the Action.
Changing the Relief...Inc/Decreasing it...only changes the necks 'Curvature' specifically.It can be felt! as if the Action changes but that is indirectly the result of.One does NOT change the Relief to change the Action.,only its curvature.
The Rod when adjusted by deliberation,will be 'Firm',does not need to be over tight!Nor left Loose!!just enough to grip really.
One adjusts the rod by small increments...Usually if/when done the effect of should be 'felt' instantly...by the fret fingers.
There are 'NO MUST BE rules'.Measurements if any 'given' are advisory!A reference guide.
Since every 'player' is Unique=So will be his 'musical preferences be also=Why the set up thatthus suits is a 'to personal tastes[s].
One set up complete may suit player X,but Player Y not so.
Be aware;
lowering the Action,brings the underside of the strings closer to..the fret tops.UNEVEN fret height inaudible before can now magnify!=Uneven fret height traced!
All frets MUST be left equal in their height otherwise FRET BUZZ results regardless of string height preference.Only way to ERADICATE fret buzz,if traced to the frets being the cause is by Levelling the frets....to perfection!Followed by Crowning them..Flats eradicated/Fret now typical rounded form.This too must be completed without error.if error IS made whilst crowning=Re Level again.& Crown again..without Error!
Numerous other reasons for cause of fret buzz,if the frets are traced to be level.String slot depths too low.Saddle height to low etc.Insufficient Relief.
Some gtrs though require a Neck reset to resolve/find the Action desired.Frets DO wear down=Levelling resolves.But one can only level until too little fret height remains=Re fret time.& all newly installed frets require-L & C'ng...otherwise it may buzz!
The Lower the string height,the more accurate the intonation=Less string travel!.Some dial in the saddle peaks to specifically attain it.
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2020, 09:21 AM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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"Changing the Strings to a Lighter gauge will/does not change the string height!"

Except when it does Acoustic guitars with flexible tops and necks can end up with lower action when string tension is reduced. The top flattens, and/or relief is reduced. Both will tend to lower the action.

The depth of the nut slots means nothing. Cutting down the rop of the nut reduces the slot depth, but unless you alter the bottom of the slots, action does not change. The proper nut height is the same as the fret tops. Press the string onto the second fret and look for minimal clearance over the first fret. If there is any more than the slightest visible gap, the nut is too high.
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