Accurately lowering glued in saddle

[warfrat73]

I was trying to lower the action a bit on my Bowerman. But it seems that the bridge is glued in place (or else its just in there REALLY good, waiting for conformation from Jayson one way or the other).

Nevertheless, it looks like I'll be lowering the action from the top. I'm pretty comfortable with this kind of work, but a bit fuzzy on how to do it accurately, and I really don't want to take off too much if it is glued in.

Is there an easy way that I'm not thinking of to mark a line that matches the radius and will tell me when to stop removing material?

I thought of using a carpenter's scribe/compass run along the top of the saddle, but even with a very sharp pencil, I don't think that I can accurately get the .03" or whatever that I'm after.

Any thoughts?

[warfrat73]

Maybe I could measure on either end, set a radius gauge to line up with the marks and then trace a line along the bottom of the gauge?

[fazool]

saddles (and nuts) should never be glued in for structural reasons - glue should only be used very lightly to hold them in place so they don't fall out during string changes.

[runamuck]

I'd be surprised if your saddle is glued in. I strongly suggest waiting to hear from the builder before doing anything.

Assuming it will come out, the way to lower it is to take material off the bottom, not the top. Change the top and you may need to intonate it again which is a lot more work, especially if you don't have experience.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Atkin builders use a half pencil.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkDm8Re6hDM
they talk about it around 10.5 minutes.
They are using for nut slots, but applied at the top of the fretboard closest to the sound hole you could stencil the curve using the half pencil.
Brilliant I thought.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I'd be surprised if your saddle is glued in. I strongly suggest waiting to hear from the builder before doing anything.

As I've been reflecting on it for the past couple of hours, I'm starting to think that I may be wrong about it being glued in. But, on the other hand, I did try to remove it with a pair of pliers and some inner-tube rubber for grip/padding and had no success... didn't budge. I've since read that many folks have success using fret nippers.

I'm still waiting on a response from Jayson.

Typically action is lowered from the bottom, it's true, but some folks like Bryan Kimsey actually advocate doing it from the top even on removable saddles.

The intonation/compensation contour is easy enough to reproduce

[Fathand]

Is it a drop in saddle or a through saddle?

Through saddles are typically glued and will look funny on the ends if lowered from the bottom as they will no longer be flush with the bridge.

Drop in saddles are not typically glued and can be lowered either way.

[BlueBowman]

Warfrat, I've had two guitars come from makers with a very TIGHT saddle fit. In both cases, I could lift the entire guitar with a plier grip at the center of the saddle.

I found if I gripped the left or right side of the saddle (with pliers) while placing pressure on the opposite side, I could slowly pry it out safely. This assumes there's no glue involved, of course.

I'v learned since that this kinda tightness is not needed in the saddle, so I sanded the thickness a bit to aid in future removal.

[warfrat73]

Thanks for the input, folks.

I understand that saddles are not typically glued in. But it was the only thing I could think of to explain the stubbornness. I actually did a little bit of purely cosmetic damage to the saddle trying to remove it the other day.

I've been doing setups for myself and friends for 20+ years, have made saddles from scratch and have removed saddles from dozens of guitars before and never come across one this stubborn.

[warfrat73]

Ok, ya'll were right not glued, just stubborn. I tried 4 different pairs of pliers the other day. Took a couple of small chips out of it. But the fret nippers did the trick.

[Mark Hatcher]

You should know that if you lower the height of the string at the saddle you will change where the intonation should be. I may want to check the intonation with the saddle back in first. If a string is a little sharp then lowering the height as is might be a good thing. If it is just right or a little flat you’ll want to sharpen it as appropriate.

[John Arnold]

I use the depth gauge on the end of a dial caliper to check saddle height before and after lowering.
In many cases, I lower saddles from the top, not just on those that are glued in. An obvious advantage is that you can vary the height of each string individually.

[maxtheaxe]

If you re-use that saddle, it's probably a good idea to take some material off of it so it's not so tight; minimal effort should be required to lift it in/out of the slot. It might just be a tad too long for the slot, but in any case it should neither fall right out or require much pressure to seat it in all the way.

Also, you may have a little bit of room in the height if you need to adjust intonation...otherwise, just carefully take material off the bottom of the saddle to lower the action. Take care that the bottom is perfectly square/flat for complete contact with the bottom of the slot...it shouldn't tilt in either direction.

That's my story & I'm sticking with it...

[redir]

When they are glued in I use a nut file to lower the string to where it should be and then use a radius block to lower the saddle down to the slot heights and then finish it off with a flat file and then a crowning file.