Neck reset help on Epi DR-200

[Recycler]

Hi, all-

I'm a beginning luthier (3 years experience) and am just getting into neck resets.

My mentor advised me that the easiest way to remove the neck from a Gibson or Guild was to loosen the fingerboard tongue and then cut the fingerboard at the 14th fret (at the body) to expose the neck joint.

I did that in an Epi DR-200S found what looks like the top of a mahogany tenon split by the truss rod.

Even though I've drilled around the two partial tenons and can get steam to flow somewhat freely, nothing I do seems to loosen the neck.

No bolts or other fasteners can be found by inspection or by magnet.

I have close-up images but only on my camera and PC. This forum seems to want me to provide a URL and I don't know how to do that.

Anyone here have experience with undoing this style of neck joint? I can't take it to my mentor for his examination because of the virus lockdown here in Maryland.

Any help would certainly be appreciated.

[mirwa]

Not to disparage but you really should not cut the extension section off during a neck reset, it adds a lot of side strength to an installed neck and can create a lot of issues for the owner at a later date.

Find a hosting site like photbucket etc and post there and then url link the photos to here or if you have facebook, post the photos in your facebook timeline and right click the image and copy address and link that in with the url

Steve

[BradHall]

The one epiphone reset I did introduced me to the infamous mystery glue. Nothing would touch it! When I finally got the neck loose I had to grind away the massive glob of harder than epoxy substance and make massive shims to reset the neck. It appeared as though the glob was a substitute for craftsmanship.

[Recycler]

I appreciate your input. I realize that cutting off the tongue is not optimal but in some cases it's the only way to get access to the neck joint, according to my mentor, a master luthier with over 30 years of experience.

I invite all members to look at the picture here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/187893656@N05/

I've never seen this arrangement and, as I said previously, I can't take it to my mentor because of the COVID-19 lockdown.

Again, any technical help would be gratefully appreciated

[John R]

One possible solution may be to drill out the tenons, and then work a new tenon solution - I'm assuming you have 2 narrow key tenons vertical flanking the truss rod.

My opinion or your teacher's method is it is not a high value instrument and customers won't like the price of the elegant job, but a Q&.D method is affordable and sounds fine. Yamaha's are famous for the epoxy and solved by sawing with a ryoba and then kerfing that cut to remove enough heel to pull the neck angle correct. A screw and plug finish it, with glue and wood flour/etc filler. Done well it is fast and fine for a $200 guitar. I did my own fg345 that has scuffs in the top so it isn't even worth the top going rate of $350.

But for learning it can be worthwhile to figure out and do a perfect job. Good luck and go for it don't overthink. It may get a flaw but that is the price of learning new skills.

[mirwa]

That style of neck reinforcement is fitted to guitars to allow for bolting and unbolting, have you checked no fasteners exist under the fretboard

Steve

[Recycler]

Originally Posted by mirwa

That style of neck reinforcement is fitted to guitars to allow for bolting and unbolting, have you checked no fasteners exist under the fretboard

Steve

Thanks for your response.

I've checked visually with the fret board extension off and inside with a mirror and also "felt" around the heel area with a strong repair magnet. So, no steel fasteners nor others unless they're very well buried in the neck block or top block.

[Recycler]

Originally Posted by John R

One possible solution may be to drill out the tenons, and then work a new tenon solution - I'm assuming you have 2 narrow key tenons vertical flanking the truss rod.

My opinion or your teacher's method is it is not a high value instrument and customers won't like the price of the elegant job, but a Q&.D method is affordable and sounds fine. Yamaha's are famous for the epoxy and solved by sawing with a ryoba and then kerfing that cut to remove enough heel to pull the neck angle correct. A screw and plug finish it, with glue and wood flour/etc filler. Done well it is fast and fine for a $200 guitar. I did my own fg345 that has scuffs in the top so it isn't even worth the top going rate of $350.

But for learning it can be worthwhile to figure out and do a perfect job. Good luck and go for it don't overthink. It may get a flaw but that is the price of learning new skills.

John-

Thanks for your input.

Agree that this is not a premium guitar. I happened across it for $35 because the string height at the 12th fret was just about zero with everything else pretty much in order. I wanted to try a neck reset and this looked like an ideal candidate.

Your description seems right on except that the "tenons" are arrayed horizontally about the truss rod, not vertically...at least as I define those terms.

I'll consider cutting or drilling the tenons.

[mirwa]

Got a photo of the inside neck block

[Recycler]

Gang-

Again, thanks for all of your input.

I finally gritted my teeth and used steam to remove the neck from this abandoned Epi DR-200.

Photos are at https://www.flickr.com/photos/187893656@N05/ but in summary it uses two keys (not exactly tenons but that's what they're commonly called so I'll use that term going forward) bridging between the neck, touching the bottom of the fingerboard, and a rather hefty block glued under the top. The tenons were wedged into the joint using 8mm dowels with material cut away to grip the tenons in both the end of the neck and the body block. Note that the mortises are not identical and that the dowels don't intersect the mortises with the same fit on both sides. Not the finest engineering I've seen but probably OK in most cases. In this particular guitar, however, it resulted in an insufficient neck angle that made the guitar unplayable. Guess that's why I got it for $35. The steaming caused the fingerboard to lift in one corner and it had to be glued and clamped back in place. I ensured that the binding was proud over the wood so it could be smoothed down flushed with the neck, causing no damage to the wood finish of the neck.

t's apparent that Epiphone intended that this joint never come apart once it was assembled.

There were also four additional dowels spaced down the center of the heel to locate the neck. These broke upon disassembly. Also, the bottom of the heel broke off but cleanly so I anticipate no structural trouble gluing it back on...it will leave a scar, though.

Now it's just a matter of letting all the wood dry out from the steam, fitting or replacing the tenons and refitting the neck at a usable angle. Instead of the lower dowels in the heel, I plan to drill pilot holes through the neck block from the outside with a drill press to ensure that they are straight and square. After that, I'll position the neck accurately and, use my right angle drills to extend the holes into the heel. Finally, I'll enlarge the holes in the neck block to the body size of some wood screws, counterbore the block from the inside and then use the wood screws as well as glue and clamps to reattach the neck. Finally, I'll have to glue and clamp on the amputated neck tongue and replace the frets.

What a learning experience! I'll let the Forum know when it's finished.

Thanks again to all who submitted their ideas!