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  #16  
Old 02-18-2019, 11:46 PM
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DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
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Originally Posted by FeliceTaylor View Post
can you tell me what the difference is between ivoroid and antique white binding ?
No need....... they both look great.
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  #17  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:06 AM
JKA JKA is offline
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D42 is one better...
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  #18  
Old 02-19-2019, 05:26 AM
Monsoon1 Monsoon1 is offline
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I have two stories to post here, and I think the answer to this thread lies somewhere in between the two.

Back in the day, I spent a very long time getting knowledgeable about speaker building. I eventually came up with what I thought would be an exceptional design, and I went to one of my favorite suppliers for advice.
The guy told me flat out that if I didn't charge 5x markup for my costs, i'd be out of business within a year.
And he broke it down further, it was 4x the cost, and 1x for advertising.

Story 2:
My brother in law was an engineer for Dana (the axle guys, made the rear end for the Vipers).
He eventually became the plant manager there, so I think it's fair to say the guy was something of an insider in the auto industry.
We were discussing the Lexus brand, and he said the Japanese had discovered that the initial launch was actually priced too LOW. It seems that for the purpose of prestige, people didn't take the car seriously enough because of that low price.
So they made a few general improvement and gradually kept bumping up the price, and car sales soared.

So to wrap up, I suspect that not only the labor and parts, but the time it takes to make the small changes on the Martin's, could be a lot more than meets the eye.
And I suspect that it's also a lot about prestige.
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  #19  
Old 02-19-2019, 07:02 AM
zoopeda zoopeda is offline
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As everyone’s said, aesthetically, the 42 has a gloss neck and different inlays.

They’re braced identically with the same wood (and sound the same now).

You realize, for this money, you could get an Authentic series Martin?
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  #20  
Old 02-19-2019, 07:16 AM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
The fingerboard inlays on either the D41 or D42 must cost about $5 total. Maybe $10.

The style-42 fingerboard extension must cost max $20.
You ignored the biggest part of the extra cost - labor. John Kinnaird once told me that it doesn't cost much more for the parts from one guitar to the next. The upcharges are for labor. Time is money.
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  #21  
Old 02-19-2019, 07:31 AM
zoopeda zoopeda is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
You ignored the biggest part of the extra cost - labor. John Kinnaird once told me that it doesn't cost much more for the parts from one guitar to the next. The upcharges are for labor. Time is money.
You realize how much extra skill and time goes into the Authentic series (hide glue, fixed neck rods, hand sculpted necks, hand finish, more expensive materials (torrefactiin, Adirondack spruce) etc) vs a few snowflake inlays on the 42. Yet the 42 is more expensive than half the Authentics. It’s nothing more than marketing. The Authentics are a much better VALUE, several of which at a lower price point than the 42. Not to mention, cost of mahogany is running with rosewood these days, yet the 18s are all quite a bit cheaper. It’s all marketing. This 40 series has a massive profit margin, comparatively.

Last edited by zoopeda; 02-19-2019 at 08:08 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2019, 08:44 AM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon1 View Post
I have two stories to post here, and I think the answer to this thread lies somewhere in between the two.

Back in the day, I spent a very long time getting knowledgeable about speaker building. I eventually came up with what I thought would be an exceptional design, and I went to one of my favorite suppliers for advice.
The guy told me flat out that if I didn't charge 5x markup for my costs, i'd be out of business within a year.
And he broke it down further, it was 4x the cost, and 1x for advertising.

Story 2:
My brother in law was an engineer for Dana (the axle guys, made the rear end for the Vipers).
He eventually became the plant manager there, so I think it's fair to say the guy was something of an insider in the auto industry.
We were discussing the Lexus brand, and he said the Japanese had discovered that the initial launch was actually priced too LOW. It seems that for the purpose of prestige, people didn't take the car seriously enough because of that low price.
So they made a few general improvement and gradually kept bumping up the price, and car sales soared.

So to wrap up, I suspect that not only the labor and parts, but the time it takes to make the small changes on the Martin's, could be a lot more than meets the eye.
And I suspect that it's also a lot about prestige.
Very good points. These are things that are not seen by the retail industry.

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Originally Posted by zoopeda View Post
You realize how much extra skill and time goes into the Authentic series (hide glue, fixed neck rods, hand sculpted necks, hand finish, more expensive materials (torrefactiin, Adirondack spruce) etc) vs a few snowflake inlays on the 42. Yet the 42 is more expensive than half the Authentics. It’s nothing more than marketing. The Authentics are a much better VALUE, several of which at a lower price point than the 42. Not to mention, cost of mahogany is running with rosewood these days, yet the 18s are all quite a bit cheaper. It’s all marketing. This 40 series has a massive profit margin, comparatively.
Correct. So many believe they are in business to make guitars while the truth is, they are in business to make money. They just use guitars to reach their goal.
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  #23  
Old 02-19-2019, 08:48 AM
zoopeda zoopeda is offline
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Originally Posted by Steadfastly View Post
Very good points. These are things that are not seen by the retail industry.



Correct. So many believe they are in business to make guitars while the truth is, they are in business to make money. They just use guitars to reach their goal.
Martin is a business. If they go under, we get no more Martins. Chris Martin chose to make his living and dedicate his time to the business of guitars rather than to work on Wall Street or open a bakery or sell drugs. He chose to devote his life to building and selling guitars. I think the accurate way to frame this is: Martin is in business to make money as well as dignity of work and purpose (for their company and employees) and to do this by bringing guitars into the world. It’s hard to find a better new guitar than an Authentic. It’s also hard to find a guitar company that stays in business by not making a profit. I, for one, am grateful they have the business sense to keep their guitars in existence. I suspect people who buy these new 42s go a long way to keeping Martin’s future alive and well.

Last edited by zoopeda; 02-19-2019 at 09:08 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-19-2019, 08:56 AM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
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Originally Posted by llew View Post
Thanks Todd! It would be interesting to hear the 41/42/45 played directly in front of you blindfolded. I wonder which one I'd choose from a standpoint of tone only?
Honestly, having owned (and still owning a couple) all three, the differences for me come down to individual guitars. It's not like a Corvette where one identically looking model has 450hp, one has 650 hp and the other has 750 hp. All three generally sound and look (for what that's worth) fantastic. Any of the three would be most people's grail or #1 or bucket-list desire. So, for me, if you have a need/desire for one esthetic find one of that model you prefer and want. If any of the three would be fine then, again, find one that blows your socks off and buy it. I've played slightly different sounding models of the '40's dreads and any/all of them would get you to Carnegie Hall after much (of course) practice, practice practice.
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  #25  
Old 02-19-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Todd Yates View Post
The bracing is the same, they use the same wood grades, and the same neck shape. Functionally, there's no real difference now. In the past the D-42 had ivoroid binding, but now both guitars use Antique white binding. IMO that is a serious downgrade on the D-42. No functional difference, but I really like ivoroid. The D-42 has a full gloss neck finish, which some people prefer. So the differences are now only the snowflake vs. small hexagon fretboard inlay and the pearl around the fretboard extension on the D-42. About $900 street price difference for those three features.
Yep. Which is why I got the D-41...
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  #26  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:58 AM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
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Originally Posted by zoopeda View Post
Martin is a business. If they go under, we get no more Martins. Chris Martin chose to make his living and dedicate his time to the business of guitars rather than to work on Wall Street or open a bakery or sell drugs. He chose to devote his life to building and selling guitars. I think the accurate way to frame this is: Martin is in business to make money as well as dignity of work and purpose (for their company and employees) and to do this by bringing guitars into the world. It’s hard to find a better new guitar than an Authentic. It’s also hard to find a guitar company that stays in business by not making a profit. I, for one, am grateful they have the business sense to keep their guitars in existence. I suspect people who buy these new 42s go a long way to keeping Martin’s future alive and well.
Don't get me wrong. I like Martin guitars. I am also not so naive as to realize they do a lot of marketing to keep up the brand name in the forefront in the industry which costs money which puts the price up on their guitars which puts money into the pockets of the owners and management. It is also good to see they are not so blatant about it as some others.

I am also glad that with the plethora of guitar manufacturers, we can usually find one that suits us without having to buy one with a certain name on the headstock.
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  #27  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoopeda View Post
Martin is a business. If they go under, we get no more Martins. Chris Martin chose to make his living and dedicate his time to the business of guitars rather than to work on Wall Street or open a bakery or sell drugs. He chose to devote his life to building and selling guitars. I think the accurate way to frame this is: Martin is in business to make money as well as dignity of work and purpose (for their company and employees) and to do this by bringing guitars into the world. It’s hard to find a better new guitar than an Authentic. It’s also hard to find a guitar company that stays in business by not making a profit. I, for one, am grateful they have the business sense to keep their guitars in existence. I suspect people who buy these new 42s go a long way to keeping Martin’s future alive and well.
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  #28  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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I'm detecting a bit of cynicism here.

The price differential is not just about marketing and bling. The very best wood from the stock piles goes into the D-45. And the most talented of Martin's luthiers work on these instruments.

A friend with whom I've done a number of home concerts had a D-45 built through the custom shop, paying upwards of $30,000 for the guitar. I've played it--fingerstyle, of course--and am absolutely blown away by it. Before that time I thought that anything above a D-35 was basically the same instrument in terms of tonal characteristics. But this is simply wrong.

If you ever get a chance to play a D-45, don't pass it up. The guitar makes its own argument.
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