The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-04-2016, 06:36 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,357
Default Graphene Guitars?

If it's even possible, how long before a Graphene guitar is developed and appears on the market? It would likely have to be constructed of formed layers of Graphene or Graphene/Carbon Fiber Composite to give some mass and structure to the instrument but I wonder how light in weight the guitar would be and what kind of tones it would produce? The first graphene guitars would likely be priced beyond all but the wealthiest of players.

Graphene is a crystalline allotrope of carbon with 2-dimensional properties. Its carbon atoms are densely packed in a regular atomic-scale chicken wire (hexagonal) pattern.

Uses: Potential graphene applications include lightweight, thin, flexible, yet durable display screens, electric circuits, and solar cells, as well as various medical, chemical and industrial processes enhanced or enabled by the use of new graphene materials.

Structural material -
Graphene's strength, stiffness and lightness suggested it for use with carbon fiber. Graphene has been used as a reinforcing agent to improve the mechanical properties of biodegradable polymeric nanocomposites for engineering bone tissue

Sound transducers -
Graphene's light weight provides relatively good frequency response, suggesting uses in electrostatic audio speakers and microphones. In 2015 an ultrasonic microphone and speaker were demonstrated that could operate at frequencies from 20 Hz-500 kHz. The speaker operated at a claimed 99% efficiency with a flat frequency response across the audible range. One application was as a radio replacement for long-distance communications, given sound's ability to penetrate steel and water, unlike radio waves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potent...nd_transducers
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2

Last edited by SpruceTop; 06-04-2016 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:34 AM
sirwhale sirwhale is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Spain
Posts: 1,081
Default

I know a small bit about graphene, being a science teacher (a biology specialist). I'd like to know how they can turn it into a composite, how the layers are laid out and what matrix they use. Would they even need a matrix?

I hadn't thought about it in this context before your post, but yes, I'm sure it could have some interesting properties. I'm also sure that it's a bit off yet.

Supposedly just a single layer is extremely strong, but what are the comparisons? Compared with a the same number of atoms of steel? That much steel wouldn't be too strong either. So how many layers of graphene do you need? If layering graphene with graphene surely you'd just end up with graphite, which is the most stable allotrope of carbon (even diamond, over millions of years, converts to graphite). So maybe a matrix will be necessary to isolate the layers...

How would we put a bridge on it? How wound we glue it to the back and sides? I'm not sure how flexible it is, like carbon fibres are when putting them in a mould.

Maybe a CF body, graphene top. I'm almost certain that it would be transparent, but not sure as the layers are built up with a matrix.

You mentioned about using graphene for producing ultrasound. It appears to be very good at producing these frequencies, which would then pose the problem of damping in guitars. I know that Joe at Blackbird uses Kevlar to damp the vibrations in CF, what would be needed in graphene?

Update
Ok so, I did some more research which gave me this: It is about 100 times stronger than the strongest steel with a hypothetical thickness of 3.35Å which is equal to the thickness of the graphene sheet.

__________________
Christian
Guitar: Camps Primera Negra A (a flamenco guitar)
Strings: Aquila SugarAquila Rubino, Knobloch CX, Aquila Alchemia
I play: Acoustic blues & folk
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/sirwhale28/videos

Last edited by sirwhale; 06-05-2016 at 12:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-05-2016, 04:45 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,433
Default

Why would you need to? Don't need further strength, and I assume it would have to be combined with other materials to make it sound warmer? Though a transparent guitar would be cool.
__________________
Steve
2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top
2005 McKnight SS Dred
2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby
2014 Godin Inuk
2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo
2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck
2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice
2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD
1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck
1987 Ovation Collectors
1993 Ovation Collectors
1967 J-45 Gibson
1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-05-2016, 04:53 AM
sirwhale sirwhale is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Spain
Posts: 1,081
Default

I think the idea is the strength to weight ratio, meaning the top could be extremely light weight, stiff and good for vibrating.
__________________
Christian
Guitar: Camps Primera Negra A (a flamenco guitar)
Strings: Aquila SugarAquila Rubino, Knobloch CX, Aquila Alchemia
I play: Acoustic blues & folk
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/sirwhale28/videos
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:00 AM
Guest 928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Could Graphene be used in an injection mold?
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=