The use of zero frets

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by seannx

Let's hope that in spite of your dislike of them for your reasons, you don't play a guitar one day that has one, and find it to be so special, that you need to make an exception.

You will never sway a closed mind .

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by harvl

..100%... after 40 years and 400 guitars I can say without hesitation it's a better method and I can live with losing a few customers along the way who feel otherwise. To not do so would be to cheat everyone else from the best playing and sounding guitar I can make. I have made guitars with a standard nut per request... I have no problem doing it. It's doesn't require a whole lot of skill or attention to detail but it is more work... to get a lesser result. I also don't get the thinking that the zero fret needs to be higher... that just defeats the purpose... if the string rattles between zero and the first fret they will rattle when you fret at the first fret...

Besides Chet Atkins told me that all guitars should be made with a zero fret... Nuf Said..

From many of the discussions I've taken part in here, it is obvious that a fair number don't have the best grasp of the physics involved. It's not uncommon to see assertions that violate Newton's laws of motion.

What I don't understand is how some seem to think that their reason for not using a zero fret (tradition or false causation) trumps others' practical reasons for using one.

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by harvl

..100%... after 40 years and 400 guitars I can say without hesitation it's a better method and I can live with losing a few customers along the way who feel otherwise. To not do so would be to cheat everyone else from the best playing and sounding guitar I can make. I have made guitars with a standard nut per request... I have no problem doing it. It's doesn't require a whole lot of skill or attention to detail but it is more work... to get a lesser result. I also don't get the thinking that the zero fret needs to be higher... that just defeats the purpose... if the string rattles between zero and the first fret they will rattle when you fret at the first fret...

Besides Chet Atkins told me that all guitars should be made with a zero fret... Nuf Said..

Strings do not vibrate in a linear manner and they do vibrate .
Please explain how a vibrating string cannot buzz on other frets when all of the frets , including the zero , are on the same plane .

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

Strings do not vibrate in a linear manner and they do vibrate .
Please explain how a vibrating string cannot buzz on other frets when all of the frets , including the zero , are on the same plane .

Because the saddle isn't on the same plane as the frets.

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by BlackmoresNight

Because the saddle isn't on the same plane as the frets.

Correct .
Achieving clearance at the saddle only means that the further you travel towards the saddle on the fretboard , the more clearance there will be between string and fretboard .
By raising the string at the nut/zero fret end , the saddle can be lower and the clearances will be more uniform along the fretboards length . Is this a bad thing ?

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

Correct .
Achieving clearance at the saddle only means that the further you travel towards the saddle on the fretboard , the more clearance there will be between string and fretboard .
By raising the string at the nut/zero fret end , the saddle can be lower and the clearances will be more uniform along the fretboards length . Is this a bad thing ?

You can have a low nut/zero fret and still have a fairly uniform action across the fretboard. No matter what there is still be an upward incline in the strings going towards the saddle, but the variance in the degree will only be very minimal on any properly setup guitar. Not to mention slightly lower action high up on the fretboard may not be worth the cost of higher action lower on the neck for most people.

[Teleman52]

I really like the tone of open strings, it's a big part of my playing, I'm under the assumption that, with a zero fret, all notes will sound the same. Open and fretted, that's a bad thing imo. Just not for me

[Jimbolaya]

Now you got me more interested. I looked at mine more closely.
I always thought my zero fret was higher, but I don't think it is.
It's definitely a different fret. The zero is gold (maybe EVO?) and the others are not.
The tone is the same for open strings and fretted strings, which is a good thing.
I can't tell you if it make the guitar play any easier, but it does play very nice.
I'm a fan. If you have a choice on a custom, I would do it.

[stuartb]

Originally Posted by harvl

..100%... after 40 years and 400 guitars I can say without hesitation it's a better method and I can live with losing a few customers along the way who feel otherwise. To not do so would be to cheat everyone else from the best playing and sounding guitar I can make. I have made guitars with a standard nut per request... I have no problem doing it. It's doesn't require a whole lot of skill or attention to detail but it is more work... to get a lesser result. I also don't get the thinking that the zero fret needs to be higher... that just defeats the purpose... if the string rattles between zero and the first fret they will rattle when you fret at the first fret...

Besides Chet Atkins told me that all guitars should be made with a zero fret... Nuf Said..

thanks for the feedback Harvey! Stuart

[stuartb]

Originally Posted by Jimbolaya

Now you got me more interested. I looked at mine more closely.
I always thought my zero fret was higher, but I don't think it is.
It's definitely a different fret. The zero is gold (maybe EVO?) and the others are not.
The tone is the same for open strings and fretted strings, which is a good thing.
I can't tell you if it make the guitar play any easier, but it does play very nice.
I'm a fan. If you have a choice on a custom, I would do it.

Of course then there is the issue of...if it is the builders 1st zero fret, can it be done badly. Would it require experience to do right? Or is it that simple since the fret is the same height. There seems to be a small distance between the nut and the fret. Does that distance matter? A little more, a little less?

Stuart

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by Jimbolaya

Now you got me more interested. I looked at mine more closely.
I always thought my zero fret was higher, but I don't think it is.
It's definitely a different fret. The zero is gold (maybe EVO?) and the others are not.
The tone is the same for open strings and fretted strings, which is a good thing.
I can't tell you if it make the guitar play any easier, but it does play very nice.
I'm a fan. If you have a choice on a custom, I would do it.

A straight edge will answer to question of height .

[stanron]

Putting in a zero fret is pretty much the same as putting in any other fret. Measure, mark, cut, press, trim and dress. A zero fret is likely to be no more or less accuratly positioned than any other.

As far as I can see the distance from the nut to the zero fret is not critical.The greater the distance, the longer the neck has to be, and the fretboard, but it is generally about 1/4" or less.

[Pheof]

Does anyone really want a zero fret as they were once made - with no height compensation for the wound strings which resulted in buzzing? I haven't read every reply here, but has anyone considered that or is this just a battle of wits and logicization, logicality or logicalness (whichever is the bestest word)? One thing I can't get past is, if it was such a great idea, how come almost no manufacturers are using it in their designs? That's a rhetorical question, the obviously answer being that it's not a great idea.

Otherwise, come to candy mountain (seriously, watch this either way):

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Pheof

I haven't read every reply here,

Obviously.

[Malty]

Prior to joining AGF, I hadn't realized how closed-minded many guitarists are. i have several instruments...including a charango ;-) ...that have zero frets and they all seem to play just fine. Now my confidence in them is shaken ;-)