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  #1  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:07 AM
DefendTheLowEnd DefendTheLowEnd is offline
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Default 2012 000-15sm - genuine mahogany or sipo/sapele?

From what I understand Martin started shifting their 15 series from genuine mahogany to sipo or sapele (depending on availability) in around 2012.

My 000-15sm is from 2012, around when the transition was taking place. Does it look like genuine mahogany or sipo / sapele? Thanks for your insight.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qg5ckv37i...p8pdn9w956hSVa
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Last edited by DefendTheLowEnd; 12-26-2018 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:30 AM
DefendTheLowEnd DefendTheLowEnd is offline
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Edited link to photo album in previous post. Link to photo album Should work now. Thanks!
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:21 AM
Athens Athens is offline
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Default "Genuine" mahogany

Sorry, but when I hear companies use terms like "Genuine Mahogany" red flags go up. It's either hog or it's not. Same with "Simple Dovetail". I've done enough woodworking to know that a dovetail is a specific type of joint. "Simple Dovetail" never existed until Martin invented it.

It's Marketing-ese to make you think that something is something it's not.

Rather than take the time to decipher their BS I just move along to their competitor.

Just my less then humble opinion.
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:26 AM
Sagebrush Tom Sagebrush Tom is offline
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Martin changed from all mahogany to Sipo with mahogany in 2014. My 2015 has a mahogany top and sipo back & sides. Your pictures show an all mahogany model to me (which by the way looks very nice). I've played mine next to an all mahogany model and i can't tell any sonic difference. So my advice to you is don't get so caught up on whether your 15 series is all mahogany or not and just just play the thing and enjoy the 15 series tone!
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:29 AM
Sagebrush Tom Sagebrush Tom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Sorry, but when I hear companies use terms like "Genuine Mahogany" red flags go up. It's either hog or it's not. Same with "Simple Dovetail". I've done enough woodworking to know that a dovetail is a specific type of joint. "Simple Dovetail" never existed until Martin invented it.

It's Marketing-ese to make you think that something is something it's not.

Rather than take the time to decipher their BS I just move along to their competitor.

Just my less then humble opinion.
Kinda just like "tropical Mahogany".
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:34 AM
catfish catfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagebrush Tom View Post
Martin changed from all mahogany to Sipo with mahogany in 2014.
Yes, someone on UMGF reported that this change took place on 21st November 2014. Before it was genuine mahogany. My 000-15M is made in 2010 and I will never sell it, this is a good one.
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:36 AM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
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could be either -they use to mix them up back then -
but in all honesty Sapele is a better tone wood -
if you like the sound ( which aparently yo do ) does it really matter ?
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:43 AM
muscmp muscmp is offline
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my 2014 is mahogany. it pairs well with my 0015m. when my friend comes over, he always wants to play one or the other.

play music!
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:46 AM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
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Once you are looking at the wood in milled lumber form, it can be difficult to distinguish Sapele, Khaya, and a few others from "genuine" mahogany. In other words, these other woods are a great substitute for the rarer and more valuable Mahogany. You might hear slight tonal differences between the various woods in this grouping of "Mahogany and Mahogany-like woods" but those differences will likely be dwarfed by the soundboard selection.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:07 AM
redir redir is offline
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It can be hard to tell but I would say that looks like genuine mahogany. South American mahogany is commonly referred to as 'genuine.'
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:44 AM
DefendTheLowEnd DefendTheLowEnd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catfish View Post
Yes, someone on UMGF reported that this change took place on 21st November 2014. Before it was genuine mahogany. My 000-15M is made in 2010 and I will never sell it, this is a good one.
Such a specific date. Is there actually a way to confirm this?

I agree with much of what is said here. I've had the guitar for several years and absolutely love the sound. It does sound quite different than my previous collings 001mh which was confirmed Honduran mahogany (which I sold).

I love the guitar whether it is "real" mahogany or sipo / sapele, but Im quirky - I want to know the actual material That the guitar is made from.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:46 AM
DefendTheLowEnd DefendTheLowEnd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscmp View Post
my 2014 is mahogany. it pairs well with my 0015m. when my friend comes over, he always wants to play one or the other.

play music!
How are you able to confirm that your 2014 is mahogany?
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Old 12-26-2018, 12:14 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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I would just be guessing if I said it was definitely mahogany, because the photos are not nearly detailed enough. However, I am pretty sure it is not sapele.
Quote:
when I hear companies use terms like "Genuine Mahogany" red flags go up. It's either hog or it's not. Same with "Simple Dovetail". I've done enough woodworking to know that a dovetail is a specific type of joint. "Simple Dovetail" never existed until Martin invented it.

It's Marketing-ese to make you think that something is something it's not.
'Hog' is swine.

Actually, in these two examples Martin is very specific, with no intent to deceive whatsoever. 'Genuine mahogany' is Swietenia macrophylla, AKA Honduras mahogany, bigleaf mahogany, South American mahogany, etc. Sapele or sipo are not genuine mahogany, and have never been described as such by Martin. The Martin simple dovetail is not tapered. The traditional Martin dovetail is. Maybe you have a better way to describe these.
While I do have issues with Martin's lack of specificity when it comes to the woods used for necks and the 15 series bodies, the two examples you cited could not be more clear.

Last edited by John Arnold; 12-26-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2018, 12:19 PM
catfish catfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefendTheLowEnd View Post
Such a specific date. Is there actually a way to confirm this?
post #6 here:
https://umgf.com/martin-mahogany-t173008.html
You can PM the guy who wrote it, I guess he should have certain info.

UPDATE: UMGF member Jerry MC wrote on another thread:
"the start date for ''sipo '' on all 15 series guitars was nov 21 , 2014. i got this from a phone call that i made in jan.of 2015 to martin guitars."

Last edited by catfish; 12-26-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: found new information
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Old 12-26-2018, 12:22 PM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
Actually, in these two examples Martin is very specific, with no intent to deceive whatsoever. 'Genuine mahogany' is Swietenia macrophylla, AKA Honduras mahogany, bigleaf mahogany, South American mahogany, etc. Sapele or sipo are not genuine mahogany, and have never been described as such by Martin. The Martin simple dovetail is not tapered. The traditional Martin dovetail is. Maybe you have a better way to describe these.
While I do have issues with Martin's lack of specificity when it comes to the woods used for necks and the 15 series bodies, the two examples you cited could not be more clear.
My 000-15m, built in 2016, was specifically listed as being built of Honduran mahogany. I just got on the Martin website and did an internal search of sapele guitars. Although Martin makes a handful of models from sapele, the 15 series is not listed among them.

I'm clearly not against sapele guitars, by the way. Of the four guitars listed in my signature, two have sapele BS, and the other two are mahogany.

For what it's worth, the guitar shown in photos by the OP certainly looks like magohany to me.
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