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  #1  
Old 01-31-2021, 05:44 AM
Argonaut Argonaut is offline
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Lightbulb Tonedexter Wavemaps -Mooer Radar compatibility?

Calling to ToneDexter users on the forum since I can't find an answer online. Is it possible to load WaveMaps created using the ToneDexter on an IR loader like the Mooer Radar?

I'm thinking of getting a Yamaha silent guitar and since I have a Mooer Radar lying around it would be awesome to be able to use the WaveMaps Tonedexter created specifically for this guitar.

Thanks i advance for clearing this up for me!

Cheers
Iason
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2021, 06:34 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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The short answer is no.

The longer answer is with the right audio interface and software, you can capture IRs from a ToneDexter pedal. Doug Young does this routinely. I thought it was too much work and wrote an IR generator instead :~).

The longest answer is ToneDexter is not storing just a time domain 2048 16 bit sample IR, but likely the entire frequency domain version in floating point (take a look their files are quite a bit larger than the typical 2-4KB IR). Given their pedal has all the arithmetic HW built in (unlike a Baggs Voiceprint), they can do some pretty interesting stuff with their character knob (it is not just an IR/bypass blend like most IR pedals or Aura). So even if you were able to decrypt it, it would be data very specific to the details of their IR generation algebra and of no use to us anyway.

IMO of all the products on the market ToneDexter has the right architecture to continue to be the best solution among its peers.
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.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
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IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2021, 06:42 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
The short answer is no.

The longer answer is with the right audio interface and software, you can capture IRs from a ToneDexter pedal. Doug Young does this routinely. I thought it was too much work and wrote an IR generator instead :~).
.
I translate what Jon said: Answer is yes.

... but you won’t get the same quality. (It will remove the quack though).

Please note that it took more time to Jon to develop his own IR recipe than it takes to capture an IR from Tonedexter. I am not saying it is a complex things to do. Anyone with a BS degree could do it in few days just reading The Tonedexter and Fishman patents and a basic signal processing book. It still takes longer than the following process to extract an IR from Tonedexter... You also might not end with results as good as TD... Athough if you decide to go Jon's way and make your own IR recipe, don't do like Jon and spend money buying sub-routines you learn to program 3 pages later in your signal processing book ... [Sorry I am a mean French guy]

If you decide to extract the IR from Tonedexter, here is how to do it:



Impulse.wav

Don't forget to edit the IR file and cut the silence before the impulse. (not written on the image)
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Last edited by Cuki79; 01-31-2021 at 06:56 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2021, 09:15 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Athough if you decide to go Jon's way and make your own IR recipe, don't do like Jon and spend money buying sub-routines you learn to program 3 pages later in your signal processing book ... [Sorry I am a mean French guy]
You only know that because I confessed my stupidity.

BTW, while you're right about the total time to write, I did have to read a text book cover to cover first as it had been 40 years since I took that course...

On a more practical note, I did manage to capture IRs at home from an EQ pedal as my experimental target, but I had hard time feeling confident I did a decent job (good SNR).
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2021, 11:00 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
You only know that because I confessed my stupidity.

BTW, while you're right about the total time to write, I did have to read a text book cover to cover first as it had been 40 years since I took that course...

On a more practical note, I did manage to capture IRs at home from an EQ pedal as my experimental target, but I had hard time feeling confident I did a decent job (good SNR).
Hi Jon,

I am pretty sure you wrote that story on the AGF already. It is a bit mean and I confess but it might save coupled bucks to the one who wants to try next.

As far as reading textbook, I am still amazed how you took it well and I wonder why you don't share new adventures with us (does not have to be IR related). I agree the EQ pedal is tough... but an EQ pedal would need IIR filters at some point because any EQ pedal uses an Op-amp based filters with a feedback loop. I tried it this way too and had very poor signal to noise ratio. But for that very case a sinesweep extraction would give better results. I made a program for that too in order to capture cab IR, I might share it one day but I need a Tonedexter to make the video demo. If you want to try, I think it exists somethere as a free matlab program . Just google it and you will find.

I have a new challenge for you and your PRS: The Keyztone Exchanger pedal. The patent has finally been released. It is also a kind of project that would only require a 40 years old or older textbook. (Note: if you need a oscilloscope and an AWG, they great all-in-one USB box to turn your PC onto an electronic lab).

If I was retired... Thats is exactly what I would be doing. Don't forget the most feedback resistant pickups are the mags pickups... this technology could be adapt to acoustic mag pickups with very few efforts. Also note that the actual pedal set in acoustic mode is «voiced» fir an electric guitar to sound «acoustic». So someone needs to take the time to reproduce and mod the circuit for a Seymour Ducan woody for example....

Do you accept the challenge?

Cheers
Cheeky Cuki
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2021, 11:12 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Jocking aside this post gave me an idea Jon. I will pm you.
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Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2021, 04:30 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
... but you won’t get the same quality. (It will remove the quack though).
Another AGF member sent me a pm to ask me a question about what I meant by quality. He sais he could not tell the difference between TD and an extracted IR... Even at 1024pts.

For most people 1024pts enough. Those people won’t spot the difference between TD and the Mooer.

I am not saying Mooer is as good as TD. TD is a way better electronic piece of equipement. But many people would not be able to tell the difference.
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2021, 09:17 AM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Have I imagined...?

[Edit] I checked, I did imagine it.

As you were.
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