The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Classical

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-14-2016, 04:39 AM
815C 815C is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Hills Of Tennessee
Posts: 4,098
Default Adjusting the action height on a classical

How is the action adjusted on a classical guitar that has no truss rod?

thx!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2016, 04:59 AM
Norman2 Norman2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 815C View Post
How is the action adjusted on a classical guitar that has no truss rod?

thx!
Hi, If your guitar has no truss rod the only two things left are increase or decrease the height of the saddle and the other is the Nut. Regards
Norman2
PS: The truss rod is mainly used to adjust the relief on the neck, not the action
__________________
Esteve 7SR
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2016, 07:52 AM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman2 View Post
Hi, If your guitar has no truss rod the only two things left are increase or decrease the height of the saddle and the other is the Nut. Regards
Norman2
PS: The truss rod is mainly used to adjust the relief on the neck, not the action

While true, it often helps lower the action when you straighten the truss rod. I do it on all of my flamencos to increase buzz and it works well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2016, 09:36 AM
Dave T Dave T is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
I do it on all of my flamencos to increase buzz and it works well.
Interesting. None of the classical guitars I've owned, nor any of the Flamenco style guitars I've looked at or played had adjustable truss rods.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2016, 12:40 PM
redir redir is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 7,657
Default

You don't see to many of them out there with adjustable truss rods. I don't build them with adjustable rods though I do use carbon fiber. But on occasion I could see them being use full.

And as mentioned, people always say that the truss rod is not meant to be used to adjust the action but rather the relief. My counter argument is that adjusting the relief is part of the whole of the system known as 'the action' so it really does adjust the action as a sort of by product of getting the relief right.

Where people get it wrong is when they want to lower their action by cranking the rod to a back bow in the neck to lower the action. But if you have too much relief then adjusting the truss rod will indeed lower the action.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2016, 01:10 PM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
Interesting. None of the classical guitars I've owned, nor any of the Flamenco style guitars I've looked at or played had adjustable truss rods.

Dave
I own a bunch of Cordobas, a Rodriguez, and a couple of Breedlove nylon strings. All have truss rods. The Yairi, Yamaha, and other brand of nylons that I've owned in the past did not have truss rods (though the higher-end Takamine that I had did). I'm not a traditionalist. I'd rather have the extra control (not to mention stability) that truss rods provide... even on a high-end instrument. I think that the carbon fiber strengthening rod in the neck is a good idea as well, but prefer the adjustability that a truss rod provides.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2016, 03:52 PM
Dave T Dave T is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,356
Default

We are probably arguing semantics but the presence of nylon strings do not necessarily make a guitar a "classical guitar" or a "Flamenco guitar".

But then YMMV,
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-15-2016, 05:54 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tatamagouche Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,136
Default

I prefer to say the truss rod adjustment "affects" the action. I always suggest setting the relief to suit, and then "adjusting" the action with the saddle (nut is done before the relief, it's stand-alone in my view). Action is adjusted by raising or lowering the saddle by your method of choice, sanding, shimming, making several that the player can choose from is known to happen. Normally to lower the saddle you remove it and sand the bottom, but working on the top has been known to happen. My view is the top is more critical than the bottom in terms of a really precise shape, but you have to shape it in the first place so shaping it twice is OK with me if it's OK with you...
__________________
Brian Evans
Around 15 archtops, electrics, resonators, a lap steel, a uke, a mandolin, some I made, some I bought, some kinda showed up and wouldn't leave. Tatamagouche Nova Scotia.

Last edited by MC5C; 07-15-2016 at 06:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-15-2016, 07:31 AM
Bikewer Bikewer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,342
Default

As MC5C says... This is the method recommended by the excellent Frets.Com site. The truss rod is used, if necessary to set neck relief to the proper amount.

The action is then adjusted via the nut-slots and the saddle height.

Classical guitars of all sorts usually need higher relief at the 12th fret because nylon strings have a higher "amplitude of vibration" (they move in bigger arcs) than steel strings.

Because the diameter of nylon strings is more uniform than are steel strings, the saddle is usually pretty much level and also not angled as they are on steel string instruments.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-15-2016, 08:27 AM
zhunter zhunter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Classical guitars of all sorts usually need higher relief at the 12th fret because nylon strings have a higher "amplitude of vibration" (they move in bigger arcs) than steel strings.
Somewhat a matter of taste maybe, but I go with similar relief (almost flat) and higher action.

hunter
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-15-2016, 02:01 PM
Mr. Scott Mr. Scott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
While true, it often helps lower the action when you straighten the truss rod. I do it on all of my flamencos to increase buzz and it works well.
That's interesting. Why do you want to increase the buzz? Most people try to reduce it as it reduces the volume and affects the tone, usually in a negative way in my experience. And I would add to what others have said in that I've never seen a classical or flamenco guitar with a truss rod. That is not to say they don't exist, it's just that they are very rare.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-15-2016, 02:02 PM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
We are probably arguing semantics but the presence of nylon strings do not necessarily make a guitar a "classical guitar" or a "Flamenco guitar".

But then YMMV,
Dave


Yes, we would just be arguing semantics/chasing our tails if we were arguing such a thing.

When I refer to a guitar as one of my "flamenco" guitars, I'm referring to it being used for that style of music, having a golpeador, and in most cases having cypress back/sides (though I also have one with ziricote b/s). I want percussive snap and some buzz on those, as well as very low action. My classicals (spruce/rosewood) I want little or no snap and buzz and can tolerate a slightly higher action.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-15-2016, 02:06 PM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
That's interesting. Why do you want to increase the buzz? Most people try to reduce it as it reduces the volume and affects the tone, usually in a negative way in my experience. And I would add to what others have said in that I've never seen a classical or flamenco guitar with a truss rod. That is not to say they don't exist, it's just that they are very rare.
Have you listened to much flamenco or nuevo-flamenco? There's definitely more buzz there than in classical and it's far more percussive/staccato in nature. Obviously, if the fretboard has so little relief that notes "fret-out" and disappear immediately, that's not desirable.

And there are a LOT of production nylon strung instruments these days with truss rods. They are anything but rare in modern times (and becoming less so). Of the past 15 nylon-stringed instruments that I've owned, maybe 3-4 didn't have a truss rod. But I own production instruments -- not ones made by a single luthier. Still... I've had ones from $500 low-end Cordobas to a high-end Master Class Breedlove Bossa Nova that all had truss rods.


Edited to add: after re-reading your post, it appears that perhaps you weren't aware that I was speaking about flamenco when talking about buzz. To clarify something I did state, I don't want buzz on my classicals at all.

Last edited by Red_Label; 07-15-2016 at 02:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Classical

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=