The top of this guitar is being pulled up at the bridge

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

This interesting. Seen a few YouTube videos and look like it works. What’s your personal experience with it?

I rip at least one a month out of peoples guitars and throw them into the bin after the customers complain that their guitar since they had one installed sounds like a wet rag.

I repair them so you dont need them.

Lets be honest, if you cannot afford to have the guitar repaired properly then yes they are a band aid to help out, but nothing more IMO

When I get a rust hole in my car, I do not go and put a street machine sticker over the hole as a permanent repair, short term yes , long term not really

Steve

[redir]

Bridge Doctors do indeed do what they are set out and designed to do. They will reduce the belly of a badly warped top and make the action perfect again. But they also completely rob your guitar of tone. "Wet rag" is a good way to describe it.

On the other hand tone is subjective and some claim that they like the sound of the guitar better with a BD installed. I guess some people like that wet rag tone. Or it could be that the guitar is now playable and they equate that with better tone.

But in the end luthiers and even guitar factories strive hard to make a guitar that has good tone and the standard design has been studied to death. A BD radically changes that design.

The only time I would consider installing one is as a last ditch effort to save an old cheap guitar.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by d.loseth

I can't seem to see our feel any braces that have come loose, is that even possible with it being bellied so bad? I decided to try the bridge doctor btw, I'm going to order one in. Thanks everyone, I'll keep you posted.

The tap test is a good indicator. If you find a spot that makes a dull thud sound that's where your brace has come loose.

That being said, I'd not be worried about the top bellying so much if the action is still comfortable for you and the bridge isn't showing signs of pulling off the top.

As for the bridge doctor, I put one in an old Takamine whose bridge was pulling away. While it may have temporarily solved the belly it never addressed the underlying issues that were robbing the guitar of tone - the primary reason being that the underside of the bridge was not in 100% contact with the soundboard. Even worse, heat stress has caused the bridge plate to come loose, which was multiplying the same effect from underneath the top.

Probably my biggest regret with the bridge doctor was that I didn't drill a pilot hole through the bridge for the mounting screw. I ended up splitting bridge along the grain. Beware, but in hindsight had I known that I needed to damage my guitar further (by drilling a hole in it, not the split along the grain) I would never have done that and paid to have it fixed properly.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by mirwa

I rip at least one a month out of peoples guitars and throw them into the bin after the customers complain that their guitar since they had one installed sounds like a wet rag.

I repair them so you dont need them.

Lets be honest, if you cannot afford to have the guitar repaired properly then yes they are a band aid to help out, but nothing more IMO

When I get a rust hole in my car, I do not go and put a street machine sticker over the hole as a permanent repair, short term yes , long term not really

Steve

I have to say, I’m not that down with drilling a hole through the bridge and top. My 12 string has little value so if it ruins it I wouldn’t be too sad about it. But still, if I can actually repair it, I rather do that.

[Bobd]

I have an old Mitchell that has a belly bulge that causes the action to be very high. I don't really want to put any money into it for repair as I don't love how it sounds and it's a pretty big guitar which makes it uncomfortable to play. I ordered a Bridge Doctor and it should arrive today but I won't have time to install until Sunday. I'll post my findings after I install it.

[CaffeinatedOne]

While you're in there with a mirror looking around, take a real close look at the bridge plate - the reinforcement directly underneath the bridge on the inside of the guitar. If that is loose or compromised, all hell can break loose because it serves to distribute the string force more evenly across the top. If it fails, you can get force concentrated at the front edge of the bridge that starts the slow wave form movement that results in warped tops.

[Bobd]

Well I tried the Bridge Doctor on the Mitchell and it didn't do anything. Belly bulge is still there and the bridge is still slanted down. Perhaps the BDoc doesn't work on laminated tops. I actually stripped the screw that holds the plastic piece to the bridge doctor. Oh, well , time for a new guitar.

[JonWint]

A bridge that is slanted more than 2 degrees needs a "belly reduction" performed on the top. It will work on a laminated top. (A solid top with a bridge plate is "laminated" in that area.) Moisture and heat softens the glue and allows repositioning to occur.

If bulge was caused by loose bracing that needs to be reglued.

Worst case laminated top fix:

[IMG][/IMG]

Belly reduction works on HPL too:

[IMG][/IMG]

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by JonWint

A bridge that is slanted more than 2 degrees needs a "belly reduction" performed on the top. It will work on a laminated top. (A solid top with a bridge plate is "laminated" in that area.) Moisture and heat softens the glue and allows repositioning to occur.

If bulge was caused by loose bracing that needs to be reglued.

Worst case laminated top fix:

[IMG][/IMG]

Belly reduction works on HPL too:

[IMG][/IMG]

How do you do that belly reduction? Here’s my 70’s Ventura 12 strings that’s pretty Huch unplayable past the second fret. The bulge is so bad that the high e strings get muted at the saddle. Tried to take a video of the bracing and I stuck my hand in there and none felt loose or broken.



https://youtu.be/0n89i3NMYcI

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

How do you do that belly reduction? Here’s my 70’s Ventura 12 strings that’s pretty much unplayable past the second fret. The bulge is so bad that the high e strings get muted at the saddle. Tried to take a video of the bracing and I stuck my hand in there and none felt loose or broken.

To eliminate muting at the saddle you might fix that with ramping so the string bears on the saddle instead of the bridge. Your angle doesn't look that excessive.

For bridge bulge fixing I use the "Thompson belly reducer". You can fabricate your own clamping cauls to do the same. The directions on StewMac explain the method.

The clamps I use allow you to provide torque to flatten the bridge angle. For other types of clamps you can elevate the clamps to effect the same result.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...y-reducer.html

[runamuck]

All solid top guitars develop a belly. It's more likely that the action is high because the neck has changed its angle to the body because of the stress of the strings, and this also happens to all guitars over time.

You may need a neck reset, which will probably cost more than the guitar is worth. Or it may be possible to lower the saddle height to make the action more playable and delay the need for a neck reset now.

Unless I missed it, you haven't provided nearly enough information for anyone here to give solid advice though.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by JonWint

To eliminate muting at the saddle you might fix that with ramping so the string bears on the saddle instead of the bridge. Your angle doesn't look that excessive.

For bridge bulge fixing I use the "Thompson belly reducer". You can fabricate your own clamping cauls to do the same. The directions on StewMac explain the method.

The clamps I use allow you to provide torque to flatten the bridge angle. For other types of clamps you can elevate the clamps to effect the same result.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...y-reducer.html

My phone couldn’t capture it well enough. This pic was also after a few days of no tension on the strings. The belly is more pronounced with the strings tuned. Thanks for all that info. This guitar has next to zero value, but she does sound very nice. So I’ll use it as something for me to learn how to make repairs.