Martin Johnny Cash HPL all laminate

[Dotneck]

Martin wants some cash...makes sense to me.

[lar]

This guy wears hearing protection when he plays his JC guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94XRs56gc5w

[Robin, Wales]

I am very unconvinced by hpl as a guitar building material, particularly for tops. Hpl is heavy, flexible and yet shatters compared to a well made ply wood. Martin seems to be the only manufacturer using it, and that speaks loudly about its effectiveness (if it was that good then everyone would be using it).

Martin have had to add additional bracing to hpl tops (bow ties between the Xs and a carbon fibre full width cross brace behind the bridge). Dispite this the material still sags when the tops are assembled. I don't think that hpl is any more climate stable than a quantity standard ply wood. I've seen many old formica tops that have warped with heat or damp, and hpl tops are braced with spruce.

Tone wise, hpl tops sound a little bass heavy to my ears.

Then there's the Martin price point to consider!

I wish Martin would ditch hpl and move to something like a quality birch ply. I bet their Mexican workshop could make some wonderful sounding and very stable guitars with birch ply backs and sides.

[lar]

FYI

here is a Martin all HPL LXM used, for sale. The back (side?) is separating. The bridge fell off and was put back on (incorrectly). It's a $329 guitar brand new @ Musicians Friend. Inexpensive, but build quality isn't there obviously, and it's a Martin.

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/...171710332.html

[LeftyKev]

The way the guy in the video was playing, kinda treating it carefully imo, the finish also looks like it will mark like hell, all satin finishes have this drawback.

[Mikesr1963]

This, this is a sad discussion.

[Guitartanzon]

Yes , Johnny C may be turning over in his grave...

The main thing that bothers me is why not at least a solid spruce top. I would buy one if it had a solid spruce top. I just cannot buy a formica top guitar.
I just cannot do it.

They should have made an all solid wood road series Johnny Cash Black guitar for $1000 bucks. I would have bought that too.

[frankmcr]

Well heck, there's always this one:

https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars...5-johnny-cash/

[munkeyfish]

Not sure why all the hate.

I bought one. It is fine guitar in it's own right. No, I'd never say is sounds like a $6k guitar. But it sounds alright. Plays pretty well. And I would never claim it it is the best guitar I ever owned.

Sure there is a "better" guitars out there for the money new or used around that price point. But I bought it because I was interested in what it was and the fact that it is a J.C.-Martin guitar. (plus I had a store credit that I needed to use) I can't afford the high end one by any stretch of the imagination.

The other thing that attracted me to the guitar is I live in Florida, it is always humid here and this guitar should hold up better to the climate here.

It sounds pretty good unplugged but better plugged in. Great for playing some dive bars around here and not worry about my good guitars getting ruined.

What I don't like: It is heavy. The bridge is square and sharp, pokes the hand if you hit it. It LOVES to show off finger prints.

What I like: Plays really well. Sounds pretty good. Stays in tune. Peace of mind when out and about with it. Great for around the fire pit/couch. Conversation starter. Looks great in person. Was able to play it out live just before the crap hit the fan and gigs stopped, worked well and sounded great. And got to chit chat about it and Johnny Cash.

You can say I wasted my money, but the guitar makes me happy. I like it enough to keep it. I find it fun.

Try one, or the plain DX one, you might find it pretty cool. Doubt you hard core anti- anything besides traditional types will like in the least bit. But it caught my interest and I have no regrets or delusions that this is "as good as a $6k guitar"

[Guitartanzon]

Hi neighbor, I am in amelia island. Great post. I agree with you. Even though I was the one who started this whats up with the JC Dx thread. Its still cool.

[zoopeda]

Kinda sorry to see the forum tolerate such an open bash fest, teed up as such from the get go.

Anyone here actually play the guitar in question?

[hermithollow]

People (myself included) have been building HPL instruments before Martin started using the material for their budget guitars. It does have some limitations and it is not bullet proof.
The dulcimers and guitars I built always had solid spruce or cedar soundboards, so I can't speak for HPL soundboard models. For back and side material it is O.K., but I have my doubts about it's long term longevity. Most HPL materials tend to get brittle when they get old. I would suspect the life of the original owner is about as much as you could expect the thing to last.
Their repairability is not that bad if you consider replacing the damaged section with another (possibly unmatched) piece. HPL scraps from a cabinet shop or big box store can be bought for not too much money. In that sense the JC model has an advantage because black HPL is among the most common and cheaply available laminate used. If you crack a side, just remove the whole thing and replace it. HPL can be thermoformed with a heat gun or the typical bending iron used by luthiers. You could use a tin can and a propane torch if that was all you had available.
HPL is composed of sheets of paper, bonded and impregnated with a phenolic resin, and with a Photographic finish on one side. The photo finish is fairly tough as many a countertop will attest, but once it is scratched or worn through it is gone.
HPL instruments can be fun and cheap to build and if done right can sound O.K. They might be a good first project for anyone contemplating building a guitar. They require very little finish work which is one of the more difficult things for a maker to do well.

[lapetrarca]

Since I've never played one, I can't say either way but, I wonder.....what would Johnny think?

[pagedr]

Originally Posted by lapetrarca

Since I've never played one, I can't say either way but, I wonder.....what would Johnny think?

I imagine he'd find it neat that he's been honored by Martin with both an extremely high end guitar that can only be afforded only by those with a large bank account, and also a lower end model that can be appreciated and afforded by a much larger segment of the population. I don't understand the idea perpetuated in this thread that "Johnny must be rolling over in his grave because Martin dared to make an HPL guitar bearing his name". It's just snobbery and it's obnoxious. (this isn't directed at you, lapetrarca, just in general)

[Wade Hampton]

I don’t know if it’s intentional snobbery, and would be very hesitant to believe that. But those of us who are used to fine quality Standard Series Martins are typically unenthused by Martin’s HPL models.

But making one in black and getting Johnny Cash’s estate to agree to naming it after him is worthwhile, in my opinion. Johnny Cash grew up in bleak rural poverty, the son of a sharecropper who could barely keep his family fed. That alone always made him very sympathetic to the poorest of the poor and neediest of the needy, and for that reason I think it’s appropriate that this inexpensive guitar be marketed with his name on it. I’m sure he would approve, and equally certain that’s why his estate agreed to it.

I’m equally sure that the foundation or whatever non-profit group that was set up to manage his estate will receive royalties from the sale of these guitars, but I don’t see it as a money grab, frankly. The royalties aren’t likely to add up to much money.

Besides, it’s not as though the estate has licensed 7-11 to sell Johnny Cash slushies or anything crass and demeaning to rake in the bucks, they’ve authorized a well-made product from a respected manufacturer that’s relevant to both his music and what he stood for as person.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller