Seeking Gibson Expert Advice

[Wade Hampton]

Cheer, the J-35 is not “simplistic,” it’s just voiced differently than the J-45. The bracing pattern of the J-45 creates a presentation of the sound that is enveloping and makes for a warm ambience of sound that immerses the player in the sonic equivalent of a big warm hug.

The contemporary version of the J-35 has bracing that’s a short scale version of the forward shifted scalloped bracing of the Gibson Advanced Jumbo, which is very projective, meaning that it will cut through the mix in a jam session or band setting more than the J-45.

The J-45 is enveloping, the J-35 is projective.

That’s the J-35 that’s being built right now: the J-35 model name has been used repeatedly over the decades, and different J-35’s from different eras can be quite dissimilar.

Anyway, the build quality of the J-35 is equal to that of the J-45, and the exact same tonewoods are used in its construction. The reason that it’s priced lower than the J-45 is that the finish used for it requires more man hours than the natural finish.

Most guitarists don’t realize that the single most expensive stage of the production of an acoustic guitar is in the finish department, especially when there’s a sunburst involved. The workers who apply the finishes are usually the most experienced and highly paid employees on the factory floor, because the chatoyance of different individual spruce tops can vary quite a bit, meaning that they can and do take and display the pigmentation of the sunburst quite differently from one guitar to the next. So the workers who spray the sunburst tops have to be able to judge, on the fly, how each top on each guitar is taking the colors.

Because if each top was sprayed exactly the same way on every guitar, it could end up with three noticeably different levels of color intensity and hue. Which retailers certainly don’t want to have to sell; both they and the guitar company need to have visual consistency from one guitar to the next.

So the job spraying sunbursts requires both a fine eye for the pigment and how the individual top is receiving it, combined with a steady, almost machine-like efficiency and the ability to work at a steady pace.

Most guitar factory employees never attain that skill level, which is why the workers who get paid more, because the company depends on those folks and needs to retain them. So they’re slotted into a higher pay grade.

By comparison, shooting a clear natural finish is less demanding and time-consuming, even though it still requires a higher level skill set than many other factory work stations do. But natural finish guitars require less time and a somewhat less demanding skill set.

That’s why a natural finish J-35 costs less than a J-45. It’s pure economics.

Of those two guitars, the J-35 is far more suited for the way I play than the J-45 is, so I would take it over the J-45 every day of the week.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

fantastic, thanks for the detail! Can I assume the J29 and J29 Elite Custom shop differ only in bling and not bracing?

With Gibson you pretty much have two choices in bracing. Either the forward or rear shifted AJ-inspired carve. If I recall correctly, at one time the bracing in the rear shifted footprint was a slightly heavier. If so though, I do not know if this still holds true. Quite a shame really as the tall non-scalloped bracing Gibson used in models such as the pre-1941 J35 produced guitars with a nice dose of raw power.

[mawmow]

I never got a J-45, mainly because of the too thin nut width for me.

Also because I read so many negative comments about inconstant sounding between two J-45.

I also saw so many with shaved bridge that point to a need for a neck reset.

But, there is for sure a good one on the used market waiting to be found.

So, be careful and try as many as yo can.

P.S. I love my quite young Gibson L-OO TV though.

[TorzJohnson]

I have the J-45 Studio Rosewood. It looks gorgeous and really sounds beautiful. Worth looking into.

[cheer tunes]

Originally Posted by mball

I owned a rosewood J-45 for a few years. Eventually sold it because the sound was a bit too dark and bass-heavy for me. It lacked that cheerful clarity I like in a Gibson. I understand from one of your posts that you don't want to hear about Advanced Jumbos, but I'll just say that I found slope shoulder rosewood happiness with an AJ tuned down a step.

Very cool insight and I will see if I can try that...thanks!

[cheer tunes]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

With Gibson you pretty much have two choices in bracing. Either the forward or rear shifted AJ-inspired carve. If I recall correctly, at one time the bracing in the rear shifted footprint was a slightly heavier. If so though, I do not know if this still holds true. Quite a shame really as the tall non-scalloped bracing Gibson used in models such as the pre-1941 J35 produced guitars with a nice dose of raw power.

killer insights, thank you!!

[cheer tunes]

Wade, this is wonderful information - thanks so much for sharing such a well articulated message. Love the metaphors as they really communicate on an emotional level as well as a logical level.

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Cheer, the J-35 is not “simplistic,” it’s just voiced differently than the J-45. The bracing pattern of the J-45 creates a presentation of the sound that is enveloping and makes for a warm ambience of sound that immerses the player in the sonic equivalent of a big warm hug.

The contemporary version of the J-35 has bracing that’s a short scale version of the forward shifted scalloped bracing of the Gibson Advanced Jumbo, which is very projective, meaning that it will cut through the mix in a jam session or band setting more than the J-45.

The J-45 is enveloping, the J-35 is projective.

That’s the J-35 that’s being built right now: the J-35 model name has been used repeatedly over the decades, and different J-35’s from different eras can be quite dissimilar.

Anyway, the build quality of the J-35 is equal to that of the J-45, and the exact same tonewoods are used in its construction. The reason that it’s priced lower than the J-45 is that the finish used for it requires more man hours than the natural finish.

Most guitarists don’t realize that the single most expensive stage of the production of an acoustic guitar is in the finish department, especially when there’s a sunburst involved. The workers who apply the finishes are usually the most experienced and highly paid employees on the factory floor, because the chatoyance of different individual spruce tops can vary quite a bit, meaning that they can and do take and display the pigmentation of the sunburst quite differently from one guitar to the next. So the workers who spray the sunburst tops have to be able to judge, on the fly, how each top on each guitar is taking the colors.

Because if each top was sprayed exactly the same way on every guitar, it could end up with three noticeably different levels of color intensity and hue. Which retailers certainly don’t want to have to sell; both they and the guitar company need to have visual consistency from one guitar to the next.

So the job spraying sunbursts requires both a fine eye for the pigment and how the individual top is receiving it, combined with a steady, almost machine-like efficiency and the ability to work at a steady pace.

Most guitar factory employees never attain that skill level, which is why the workers who get paid more, because the company depends on those folks and needs to retain them. So they’re slotted into a higher pay grade.

By comparison, shooting a clear natural finish is less demanding and time-consuming, even though it still requires a higher level skill set than many other factory work stations do. But natural finish guitars require less time and a somewhat less demanding skill set.

That’s why a natural finish J-35 costs less than a J-45. It’s pure economics.

Of those two guitars, the J-35 is far more suited for the way I play than the J-45 is, so I would take it over the J-45 every day of the week.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[davenumber2]

Originally Posted by TorzJohnson

I have the J-45 Studio Rosewood. It looks gorgeous and really sounds beautiful. Worth looking into.

That burst is a thing of beauty.

[soao]

IN 2015 I was in a holy guitar quest. I’m 70 and wanted the easier playing of a short scale. I was lucky to find a J29 and a J45 custom at the same place and time so I could A/B them. I don’t know why, but the J45 custom came home with me. 5 years later, I couldn’t be happier.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Mr. Paul

I've played all three and would go straight to the rosewood J45.

Agreed. My J 45 Rosewood is my favorite guitar, the one I have on the longest, and the one that I will never sell.

[cheer tunes]

I forgot to mention I've had a J45 Standard 2008 (original owner) and it has never disappointed for performances. It's nothing special but it always gets the job done. That is the reason I'm focused on a Rosewood J29 or J45 Custom this time around.

[Martin_F]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

I forgot to mention I've had a J45 Standard 2008 (original owner) and it has never disappointed for performances. It's nothing special but it always gets the job done. That is the reason I'm focused on a Rosewood J29 or J45 Custom this time around.

Since you already have a J45 Standard, although the Rosewood J-45 may sound a little different, you are likely going to get the same range of tones. I don't think it would be different enough to warrant that price (unless you have money to burn and space for extra guitars). The Rosewood J-45 I tried was maybe different than the Standard, but not a night and day difference. Very subtle. In an amplified performance context, no one would ever know the difference. In a small acoustic setting, maybe a guitarist in the crowd might hear subtle variation. At home to yourself, you might notice a difference, but likely not much more than the variation between different J45 Std's. However, it's your money and not mine to judge. If I were in your shoes, I would likely go for a different guitar altogether.

In this case, maybe one of the other Gibson models is a better choice.

My opinion...
Martin

[drive-south]

Gibson did make some short scale AJ's. If you come across one I'd give it a serious listen.

There were also some rosewood Southern Jumbo's. That would be a great choice.

[slopeshoulder]

I have owned two or three J-45s in the last twenty years or so. They all sounded different from one another. The best sounding Gibson I have ever owned and still own is a Southern Jumbo Ultimate. It is a 12 fret version and man oh man......THE SOUND! Worth consideration imho.

[cheer tunes]

Originally Posted by Martin_F

Since you already have a J45 Standard, although the Rosewood J-45 may sound a little different, you are likely going to get the same range of tones. I don't think it would be different enough to warrant that price (unless you have money to burn and space for extra guitars). The Rosewood J-45 I tried was maybe different than the Standard, but not a night and day difference. Very subtle. In an amplified performance context, no one would ever know the difference. In a small acoustic setting, maybe a guitarist in the crowd might hear subtle variation. At home to yourself, you might notice a difference, but likely not much more than the variation between different J45 Std's. However, it's your money and not mine to judge. If I were in your shoes, I would likely go for a different guitar altogether.

In this case, maybe one of the other Gibson models is a better choice.

My opinion...
Martin

Interesting, thanks Martin! I'm thinking the RW might make a big difference but agree, when you plug in it's easy to loose the subtleties.