Zoom Built in mics vs MXL 990/991 pair

[TBman]

I'd thought I'd give this a shot. Also, while fiddling with the zoom I saw I had somehow hit the -20db switch so now it is turned off.

Here are 4 recordings, two unprocessed, two with my eq'ing attempts using the Zoom built in mics xy and the MXL 990/991 large and small condensors as a spaced pair.

After listening to Peter (Wrighty's) version and Al Petteway's it finally hit me that I'm not playing the arpeggios in the song correctly which to me effects the comparison of the recordings to his. I'll work on this and see if it mellows out this particular tune. I have a feeling it will. I'll still be wrestling with the "warmth" issues so perhaps that is a combination of what mics are being used and mic placement as well.


Built in mics, raw recording:



MXL 990/991 pair, raw recording:



Built in mics, my eq:



And MXL 990/991, my eq:


Maybe one of these years I'll record the whole song again, lol.

There doesn't seem to be a huge difference with this pair of mics and the built ins. The Zoom's mics don't appear to be picking up as much treble as its a little south of the sound hole and as a result doesn't sound as harsh as the external mic pair.

I'll do recordings with my Rodes NT-5 and AGK Perception 150 compared to the built in mics and post it soon.

Part of the original song by Al Petteway for reference.


Mine with compression and limiter:

[rick-slo]

Better. The MXL990 - 991 - Raw gives more to work with. Still a lot of noise in the background.

I added a little phase change and some reverb to it here:

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Temp/BAGF.wav

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Better. The MXL990 - 991 - Raw gives more to work with. Still a lot of noise in the background.

I added a little phase change and some reverb to it here:

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Temp/BAGF.wav

Thanks Rick!

What is "phase change"?

I had a ceiling fan on in the other room, also, maybe the mics gain was too high? I have to experiment with placement and input gain to solve a lot of that I guess.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by TBman

Thanks Rick!

What is "phase change"?

I had a ceiling fan on in the other room, also, maybe the mics gain was too high? I have to experiment with placement and input gain to solve a lot of that I guess.

In this case a bit (0.2 milliseconds) on the left side (pretty minor effect in this case and mainly through headphones, not speakers).


Regarding noise, there wasn't a computer running in the room?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

In this case a bit (2 milliseconds) on the left side (pretty minor effect in this case and mainly through headphones, not speakers).


Regarding noise, there wasn't a computer running in the room?

No, I was in another room. I had the input gain at 6 on a 1 to 10 dial for each external mic and 8 for the built in mics.

[rick-slo]

Doubt the noise is a gain setting issue. If you can hear the ceiling fan the mikes can hear it even more. Cut the fan and and other noises you hear. Start the Zoom recording using the same gain you have been using. Don't play, just sit there and record for say 10 or so seconds. Listen back to see if there is any noise.

[Doug Young]

2ms is kind of an odd time difference - corresponding to mic placement being 2 feet different. I didn't check this, just going on what Rick says (It'd be easier to play with your tracks if you'd make them downloadable). Maybe it's a difference in the two mic models, tho that also seems odd.

Overall the 990/991 track sounds much better to me, tho there does seem to be some sort of phase thing going on.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

2ms is kind of an odd time difference - corresponding to mic placement being 2 feet different.

Yep, was 0.2 milliseconds. Corrected my post.

[Doug Young]

Oh, that's a 1/4 inch off. Hard to get more aligned than that with spaced pairs.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Oh, that's a 1/4 inch off. Hard to get more aligned than that with spaced pairs.

Type error again, 0.2 milliseconds. In any case I go by ear and with most of my own recordings adjustments are in the 0.1 to 0.4 millisecond range.
I will add that I like to make that adjustment right after a R and L volume balance. Then I will explore reverb (usually stereo reverb).

[Wrighty]

Hi Barry, no comparison in my opinion. The external mic recording is much better - more clarity and more dynamic range. More to work with. It does highlight any less than clean playing however so that’s an issue to be aware of, but in general I think that’s the way to go.

[Wrighty]

Just to add, I can hear a lot of background noise in that recording (the last one) - some sort of male voice amongst more general noise.

[Vindellama]

I was looking at the mics...
Are they the same as the ones used here?:


If so...
Considering your recording and this 'favorite'.
I guess a cheap pair can really make a difference over the built in mics.

Still don't know if they are pratical for outside recordings, like in my case.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Doubt the noise is a gain setting issue. If you can hear the ceiling fan the mikes can hear it even more. Cut the fan and and other noises you hear. Start the Zoom recording using the same gain you have been using. Don't play, just sit there and record for say 10 or so seconds. Listen back to see if there is any noise.

I'll do that. It wasn't a great night for recording as the fan in the kitchen was on and television in living room too. My best bet for recording is when I'm home alone during certain parts of the weekend, but then there's lawnmowers and barking dogs to contend with.

There is one more room I can record in though, I'll give that one a test this weekend.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Better. The MXL990 - 991 - Raw gives more to work with. Still a lot of noise in the background.

I added a little phase change and some reverb to it here:

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Temp/BAGF.wav

The Zoom has a built in low cut filter and a -20db pad feature. I'm going to investigate both using headphones.