Martin explicitly confirms: no more Ivoroid bindings

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by stephenT

Well,.. it is. I used Warmoth celluloid Pickguards on my electric guitars, every one had a warning sticker. I recall trimming a celluloid pickguard on a jigsaw, it flamed up.

What does that have to do with anything, let alone binding not being properly secured? Celluloid is used by dozens of makers and in some of the most popular guitar picks.

Also, someone said earlier that Larrivee uses nitro in California. They do not. SCGC and others do though.

[b1j]

Not to jinx things, but I’m still waiting for the bindings on my HD-28 and D-18 to fail. Feeling lucky.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by b1j

Not to jinx things, but I’m still waiting for the bindings on my HD-28 and D-18 to fail. Feeling lucky.

Don’t count your chickens too soon - it took nine years for the tortoise binding on my D-18 to start parting company with the rest of the guitar.

By that score, you’re not out of the woods yet…

[rllink]

Originally Posted by Earl49

It may not be their choice. Local environmental regulations may prohibit that good adhesive. For example, Taylor had to get away from nitro finishes and develop UV-cured polyester to avoid emissions requirements in CA.

Unofficially I suspect that Blackbird guitars in SF switched from carbon fiber to ekoa (linen fabric composite) due to off-gassing issues from resins and air quality regs. I also believe that they had to send finished bodies out of state for shooting with clear coat. No confirmation of either though.

But Martin's aren't made in California, so California's strict standards are not the problem. Besides, I don't know what the deal is with Taylor, but manufacturers in California are producing guitars with Nitro finishes.

[stephenT]

Originally Posted by Bowie

What does that have to do with anything, let alone binding not being properly secured? Celluloid is used by dozens of makers and in some of the most popular guitar picks.

Guess you didn't read the post I was replying to,.. the assertion that celluloid "isn't inherently a problematic material" and the previous thread that wondered if now celluloid would be discontinued as well.

Appreciate the schooling but we're aware of the uses of celluloid. I think I mentioned I used celluloid pickguards on my electric builds, that's over fifty pickguards and been picking w/ celluloid picks since I was eleven.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by stephenT

Guess you didn't read the post I was replying to,.. the assertion that celluloid "isn't inherently a problematic material" and the previous thread that wondered if now celluloid would be discontinued as well.

Appreciate the schooling but we're aware of the uses of celluloid. I think I mentioned I used celluloid pickguards on my electric builds, that's over fifty pickguards and been picking w/ celluloid picks since I was eleven.

You were replying to my post. If being flammable is a concern, then nitrocellulose lacquer is FAR more dangerous. I said cellulose is not problematic (in this context) so if you insist on arguing, you need to show evidence of how it's been inherently problematic to guitar builders. I would point to the use of it in picks, guards, binding, etc for decades. It's a material deemed safe for children to use and to swipe against metal strings.

[mercy]

Good, its about time they started using wood

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Earl49

It may not be their choice. Local environmental regulations may prohibit that good adhesive. For example, Taylor had to get away from nitro finishes and develop UV-cured polyester to avoid emissions requirements in CA.
...

This is what I was thinking, too. The manufacturing company I worked for over four decades had to continually change paint on our products over environmental rules in our area and these changes caused all kinds of QC issues. Sometimes the politics behind these issues can be quite complex and unyielding.

If Martin is changing their processes in order to address the binding separation issues of the recent past, this is a good thing.

- Glenn

[garsurf]

I am in the air quality field in California, and when I was a regulator I went out of my way/fought with my agency to find an "exemption" for Seymour Duncan to be able to continue dipping their vintage repro pickups in laquer (in a PINT size reservoir) - Seymour and Cathy were very appreciative. I don't know about Nazareth but I am sure the respective local regulators have a pretty close eye on the CA guitar factories...

[abn556]

Originally Posted by garsurf

I am in the air quality field in California, and when I was a regulator I went out of my way/fought with my agency to find an "exemption" for Seymour Duncan to be able to continue dipping their vintage repro pickups in laquer (in a PINT size reservoir) - Seymour and Cathy were very appreciative. I don't know about Nazareth but I am sure the respective local regulators have a pretty close eye on the CA guitar factories...

When they chase all the guitar builders out, we’ll be glad to take them in Texas.

[phavriluk]

Originally Posted by abn556

I agree with this. The maple binding on my Larrivee looks great. I wish Gibson and Martin would both start using wood binding.

I have no dog in this fight, but wood bindings impress me a bunch more than pennies-per-foot plastic on spectacularly expensive instruments. I think this 'tradition' noise from Martin is just puffery to mask corner-cutting cheapskatery.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

I have no dog in this fight, but wood bindings impress me a bunch more than pennies-per-foot plastic on spectacularly expensive instruments. I think this 'tradition' noise from Martin is just puffery to mask corner-cutting cheapskatery.

Gibson and others do the same thing. Gibson does the “this is the way we built them 100 years ago” thing whenever it suits them.

[donlyn]

Martin explicitly confirms: no more Ivoroid bindings

Nothing to see here folks.
No more binding roulette?

Move along.
Much ado about nothing?

Judge by deeds, not words please.

No dog in this fight.
Or guitar.

Don, who still doesn't own a Martin (and likely never will).
.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by donlyn

Nothing to see here folks.

Move along.
Much ado about nothing?

I'm confused by people going into threads and saying, "stop talking about this". If the topic doesn't interest you, it's easy to be respectful and let the people who are interested in it have a discussion. The forums exist for discussion.

[Fritz the Cat]

Originally Posted by Bowie

I'm confused by people going into threads and saying, "stop talking about this". If the topic doesn't interest you, it's easy to be respectful and let the people who are interested in it have a discussion. The forums exist for discussion.

After the U.S. government banned LSD for both recreational use and scientific experimentation, research continued in secret. Investigators tested psychedelic substances on willing participants and published their findings in reputable medical journals. To evade legal repercussions, these articles employed coded language when discussing these drugs. Similarly, in our discussions at the Acoustic Guitar Forum, we refer to controversial topics as "ivoroid bindings."

I earnestly wish that this insight provides some measure of assistance in your dark and twisted journey through this musically arcane universe.