Sapele vs. Mahogany sides and back

Sankavarmuch · #1 10-24-2016, 01:22 PM

What's the general consensus on sapele v mahogany? Over time, does one hold up or sound "better" than the other?

The real reason I'm asking is because I'm looking at Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500M (mahogany) vs. Martin GPCRSGT (sapele). They sound and feel similar. Martin is more $$$, but does have electrics built in.

Jeremy · #2 10-24-2016, 01:38 PM

This site provides a great comparison between the two tonewoods: http://sixstringacoustic.com/sapele-...hich-is-better

catdaddy · #3 10-24-2016, 04:08 PM

It's quite possible that the Epi Masterbilt DR500M that you're considering is sapele even though they refer to it as mahogany. I owned an Epi Masterbilt AJ500M which was listed as having "mahogany" back and sides but was in reality sapele. Sapele is a fine tonewood, and very similar to mahogany. In the case of the the Martin vs the Epi I suggest you go for the one that you like best regardless of whether it's mahogany or sapele.

flaggerphil · #4 10-24-2016, 08:04 PM

I'm pretty sure over time they're both going to hold up and hold their sound equally well. Sapele is said to sound a bit brighter then mahogany, but, overall, they're very similar.

TBman · #5 10-24-2016, 08:07 PM

Check the bridge on the Epiphone and make sure it isn't lifting. Do the paper test. GC told me Epiphone had a problem with this. (The DR-500R I had lifted slightly).

Wild Bill Jones · #6 10-24-2016, 08:50 PM

I have a sapele Rockbridge and a hog Kopp. They are almost the same size modeled after a Gibson J45. Both have Adi tops and scale lengths are almost the same. The Rockbridge is a little "brighter" sounding with a bit more overtones than the Kopp which has stronger fundamental sound. My opinion is Sapele sort of splits the difference between mahogany and rosewood. I like all three woods for what each is.

DenverSteve · #7 10-24-2016, 09:10 PM

Play them both and pick the one that sounds the best. Additionally, not only does the Martin have electronics but it have a higher resale value if you decide to sell later on.

DupleMeter · #8 10-24-2016, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

This site provides a great comparison between the two tonewoods: http://sixstringacoustic.com/sapele-...hich-is-better

this is pretty good, but leaves out some details. For instance, true mahoganies are of the Swietenia family. They consist of:

Swietenia mahogani (Cuban Mahogany)
Swietenia macrophylla (Honduran/Tropical Mahogany)
Swietenia humilis (Mexican Mahogany)

The next closest family member is the genus Khaya (K. anthotheca, K. grandifoliola, K. ivorensis, K. senegalensis), which are collectively known as African Mahogany. Most builders will tell you that these are "close enough" to the swietenias that there is little perceptible difference.

Then you have a handful of families that all have similarities to the real stuff, but have mixed acceptance as "mahoganies", the 2 most common families being:
Entandrophragma Genus: Entandrophragma cylindricum (Sapele) & Entandrophragma utile (Utile/Sipo) and the Cedrela genus which gives us Cedrela odorata (Spanish Cedar).

Though, Spanish Cedar smells incredible

I believe Martin used to use this for their kerfing (they may still, I don't know) and I would sit and sniff my Martins all the time because of the beautifully fragrant smell they had.

Now, does any of that matter? I don't think so. All these woods have proven to hold up over time and if you like the tone they give a guitar, the details don't matter. In the words of Joe Meek "if it sounds right, it is right". Let your ears be the final judge.

dmoss74 · #9 10-25-2016, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

Then you have a handful of families that all have similarities to the real stuff, but have mixed acceptance as "mahoganies", the 2 most common families being:
Entandrophragma Genus: Entandrophragma cylindricum (Sapele) & Entandrophragma utile (Utile/Sipo) and the Cedrela genus which gives us Cedrela odorata (Spanish Cedar).

i had a j45 until i was offered a trade that i couldn't refuse. and it was giving me a value more than twice as much as what i paid for the j45 (which i had gotten for a song).

the trade--on my end--was for an electric guitar. i still wanted an aj sized guitar (having fallen in love with the size) and ended up getting an eastman e10ss, again, for a great price, since i ain't made of money. i absolutely love the guitar. i have no idea which variety of mahogany they use on that guitar, but it sounds fabulous. i could bore you with a/b sound clips, but i won't. there are tonal differences between them. the main one being that the eastman has an adirondack spruce top. but i would have been happy keeping either. it just worked out good for me on both ends. i still have a killer sounding aj guitar, plus an incredible les paul on top of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

Though, Spanish Cedar smells incredible

I believe Martin used to use this for their kerfing (they may still, I don't know) and I would sit and sniff my Martins all the time because of the beautifully fragrant smell they had.

Now, does any of that matter? I don't think so. All these woods have proven to hold up over time and if you like the tone they give a guitar, the details don't matter. In the words of Joe Meek "if it sounds right, it is right". Let your ears be the final judge.

i have hear so many stories of people thinking that smell was the finish, or one of the other woods (or even the case glue), but when you know what spanish cedar smells like, you never forget it.

i had a new taylor 714 i bought in the early '90s that had that beautiful aroma in it. it lasted for years before it finally went away. the j45 i had had sc kerfing, too, and it smelled glorious. and yes, some martins still have the spanish cedar kerfing in them. i can smell it if i go into a store to play around for a while.