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  #31  
Old 09-11-2014, 08:11 PM
Tom Gindorf Tom Gindorf is offline
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Having Played a few Lowdens recently at Acoustic Vibes I would recommend Walnut and Spruce of some sort. Walnut is really amazing in the right hands. Somewhere between Rosewood and Mahogany. An Engelmann Spruce over Bastogne Walnut would be amazingly beautiful and sound incredible. Here is an example of what Bastogne Walnut can look like.....

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  #32  
Old 09-11-2014, 08:35 PM
Scallywag Scallywag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Wong View Post
Hi ewh2,

I know it is kind of superficial but I'm not too keen on the look of walnut.
FWIW, the sinker redwood/walnut Model One guitar on Simon Fay's website is easily one of the most beautiful guitars I've ever seen. The walnut back on that thing is really spectacular, you should take a peek at it and see Walnut in its sunday best
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  #33  
Old 09-11-2014, 08:40 PM
Marcus Wong Marcus Wong is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
I wouldn't say spruce/rosewood is "ideal" but "most popular", "most versatile" or "safest" if you will. This is coming from a guy whose main guitars have cedar tops...

FWIW when I compared a cedar/walnut Lowden F to its redwood counterpart in Toronto a few years ago, I didn't notice much difference tonally.

Another aspect to consider is that Lowdens have a very thin finish. Of spruce, redwood and cedar, spruce is hardest and most resistant. Depending on your own playing style, this may be relevant (or not).
I feel I do prefer the tone of Cedar/Redwood but might have to settle for Spruce due to it being the most resistant as I do play percussion. As well as Spruce being more defined than the former.

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Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
+1 to this! There are some excellent builders and excellent players responding to this, but at the end of the day, none of us know what a Lowden will sound like with different tonewood combinations better than George and the others at Lowden. If you're trusting them with the build, then trust them to help guide you through these choices...
drplayer, I know that the guys at Lowden would know best but like I have mentioned already, their response wasn't very satisfying. But as many of you have pointed out this, I have emailed them again asking for their opinion

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Originally Posted by rogthefrog View Post
You might be overthinking it

My 19-year old Taylor's non laminated neck has been subjected to a lot of retuning. All of my songs are in a different tuning, and the neck had never ever needed an adjustment. Not once. And its one size fits all bracing sounds just fine with altered tunings.

Many builders worth their salt will do custom neck widths, large bodies and fan frets.

Not trying to argue--I think a Lowden is a fine choice--I just find it interesting your initial set of very principled, thought out choices (Lowden, redwood, ziricote) are pretty much the opposite of what the vast majority of "modern technique" players would have picked.

I agree with Simon that picking the right builder and working with them on wood and other choices is really what will determine the guitar that comes out.
Haha that's why I said that if I was forced to come up with a fifth reason, then that would be it as I know it isn't very significant if at all.

The thing is I am residing in Singapore and do not have access to many Builders. Only the common ones like Lowden, Goodall, Bourgeois and Santa Cruz. I've tried them all and Lowden spoke to me by far. Otherwise I would have definitely considered other builders.

Well if I'm not mistaken, Andy McKee plays a Greenfield Lutz Macassar. Macassar is tonally similar to Ziricote and actually further from rosewood than Ziricote which lies in the middle if I'm not wrong haha

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Originally Posted by philjs View Post
More than a couple, I think. Don Ross' first 3 recordings were done with an O10 (cedar/Mahogany). Eric Roche is (was) also a great proponent of Lowden guitars playing an O10, 023 (cedar/walnut) and O25 (redwood/rosewood). Other players of Lowdens, not all as bombastic as Leeb but all players that "stretch" the boundaries, include Alex de Grassi, Jon Gomm, Andy McKee, Gilles le Bigot, Soig Siberil, Ben Lapps, Paul McSherry, Richard Thompson, Eric Clapton and, of course, Pierre Bensusan.

To the OP: Listen to Simon, redwood and walnut are an awesome combination...

Phil
+1

Though I wouldn't call Eric Clapton a Lowden player. More like an ex Lowden owner. And Andy McKee was an Avalon player which is quite similar I suppose!

I know. If tone was the only thing I was considering, I wouldn't have been in this situation in the first place! Haha I wanted an aesthetically pleasing guitar as well and so far only Cocobolo and Ziricote really appeal to me in that aspect ><

Apologies if I'm coming off as indecisive and fickle to fellow AGF members. It's my first custom guitar and I have no idea what to expect and do want it to be perfect though I know it's too much to ask haha Really appreciate all your support and input so far. Just bear with me a little more till the order has been placed
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  #34  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:23 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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You really do have to trust your luthier and there's no reason not to trust someone like George. You already like his guitars so go with his advice.

I am currently awaiting a commissioned build and the actual wood choices were made by the luthier after long discussion about sound - I was lucky that I could visit him and he could here me play.

Email George/Trust George and a I am sure you will be happy!
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  #35  
Old 09-12-2014, 02:15 AM
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The thing is I am residing in Singapore and do not have access to many Builders. Only the common ones like Lowden, Goodall, Bourgeois and Santa Cruz. I've tried them all and Lowden spoke to me by far. Otherwise I would have definitely considered other builders.

Apologies if I'm coming off as indecisive and fickle to fellow AGF members. It's my first custom guitar and I have no idea what to expect and do want it to be perfect though I know it's too much to ask haha Really appreciate all your support and input so far. Just bear with me a little more till the order has been placed
That's the key. My suggestion is to dig deep with the builder. Lowden makes superb guitars, and you know you like them the most of the ones you've tried, so just ask Lowden for guidance. They will know best.

I didn't pick any of the materials for my upcoming Wingert guitar. I just spoke with Kathy a lot, played a bunch of her guitars, she listened to me play, and she picked the woods out of her stash. I wouldn't have known what variety of spruce to ask for, and never would have thought of bubinga. But she knows. And Lowden knows. And most importantly, they know what woods sound like under their chisels. So just describe what tones you like to the Lowden crew and trust them.

And have fun!
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  #36  
Old 09-12-2014, 07:59 AM
mcduffnw mcduffnw is offline
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Hi Marcus...

One thing that would help Lowden a lot, in understanding the sound you are looking for, and even better than trying to describe it to them, would be to email them sound clips of music you have heard that has the guitar tone that you are after. That would be the biggest help by far to the great team at Lowden.

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  #37  
Old 09-12-2014, 08:38 AM
Marcus Wong Marcus Wong is offline
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Originally Posted by mcduffnw View Post
Hi Marcus...

One thing that would help Lowden a lot, in understanding the sound you are looking for, and even better than trying to describe it to them, would be to email them sound clips of music you have heard that has the guitar tone that you are after. That would be the biggest help by far to the great team at Lowden.

Best Regards
duff
Hi Duff, thank you for your advice and I have indeed done that. Mentioned some artists as well which they should be familiar with since they coincidentally endorse Lowden as well haha The thing is they just don't reply with any sense of urgency or with much enthusiasm/minimal information and it is hard to have a proper discussion about tone woods with them...

My first email to them went unnoticed for 16 days before I emailed them again. And 26 days later, they forwarded me to another person who replied with a very simplistic reply which lacked detail...nothing I could form an opinion over :/ and also misread some of my questions replying with something that weren't related to them. I have heard such good feedback about the helpfulness of the Lowden team, but it just doesn't seem to be going my way.

Might just be that particular person though, because when I asked about non tone wood related things, they forwarded me to a different person who was quite helpful indeed.

Again I don't mean to speak negatively about them. Just stating my experience which is in no way a reflection of Lowden as a whole
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  #38  
Old 09-12-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Wong View Post
Hi Duff, thank you for your advice and I have indeed done that. Mentioned some artists as well which they should be familiar with since they coincidentally endorse Lowden as well haha The thing is they just don't reply with any sense of urgency or with much enthusiasm/minimal information and it is hard to have a proper discussion about tone woods with them...

My first email to them went unnoticed for 16 days before I emailed them again. And 26 days later, they forwarded me to another person who replied with a very simplistic reply which lacked detail...nothing I could form an opinion over :/ and also misread some of my questions replying with something that weren't related to them. I have heard such good feedback about the helpfulness of the Lowden team, but it just doesn't seem to be going my way.

Might just be that particular person though, because when I asked about non tone wood related things, they forwarded me to a different person who was quite helpful indeed.

Again I don't mean to speak negatively about them. Just stating my experience which is in no way a reflection of Lowden as a whole
Describing tone in words is difficult, and even more difficult is for the other person to interpret your words in a way that the tone you are describing is the same as the tone they are envisioning: we have no common understanding of our descriptions of tone.

When I was in the process of commissioning a build with Alan Carruth we had several exchanges of information regarding the tone I desired. However, the most useful thing was when Alan sent me one of his demo guitars to try. From that point on we used the demo guitars tone as a reference point. I told him what I liked, and what I would like changed, of that guitar's tone. This was much more useful, again because we had a common reference point. Have you had access to one or more wood combinations in a Lowden jumbo that you have played? If so, maybe you could explain to Lowden what you liked in that guitar(s) as well as what you would like to be different.
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  #39  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:17 AM
Marcus Wong Marcus Wong is offline
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Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Describing tone in words is difficult, and even more difficult is for the other person to interpret your words in a way that the tone you are describing is the same as the tone they are envisioning: we have no common understanding of our descriptions of tone.

When I was in the process of commissioning a build with Alan Carruth we had several exchanges of information regarding the tone I desired. However, the most useful thing was when Alan sent me one of his demo guitars to try. From that point on we used the demo guitars tone as a reference point. I told him what I liked, and what I would like changed, of that guitar's tone. This was much more useful, again because we had a common reference point. Have you had access to one or more wood combinations in a Lowden jumbo that you have played? If so, maybe you could explain to Lowden what you liked in that guitar(s) as well as what you would like to be different.
Hi Chuck, I live in Singapore, access to such guitars is quite difficult. The only Jumbo Lowdens available here in Singapore is an O22 (Cedar Mahogany), O32 (Sitka EIR) and a Thomas Leeb Signature (Sitka Walnut). The TLS had old strings on it so any conclusions drawn from that particular guitar isn't too accurate. Given 2 different tops and 2 different B&S, I couldn't decide whether it was the tops I preferred or the B&S.

From what I could recall, the O32 was really nice in standard tuning and DADGAD while the O22 lacked quite a bit in standard tuning but was MAGICAL in dropped tunings. Now I'm not too sure if this was due to the top or B&S. My best guess is that the O22 sounded better in dropped tunings was because it had a Cedar top which was more open sounding while the O32 had a tighter Sitka top and possibly the same reason why the O32 sounded better in standard tuning as well. But like I said, it is really hard to draw any conclusions with just 2 guitars...which is why I am resorting to you guys ><
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  #40  
Old 09-12-2014, 12:00 PM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus Wong View Post
My first email to them went unnoticed for 16 days before I emailed them again. And 26 days later, they forwarded me to another person who replied with a very simplistic reply which lacked detail...nothing I could form an opinion over :/ and also misread some of my questions replying with something that weren't related to them. I have heard such good feedback about the helpfulness of the Lowden team, but it just doesn't seem to be going my way.
Hey Marcus, you're very patient. I would not have waited three days, let alone 16. Personal interactions are YMMV -- but business should be within one business day, two max. If someone makes me wait more than two days, I buy elsewhere.

In any case, I think part of the problem is that your question is a bit flawed. Quoting your initial post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Wong View Post
I mainly play modern finger style with my nails. Altered/dropped tunings, hammers, harmonics, percussion. Basically the style of a lot of the Candyrat artists.
That is essentially what you provide as information on your "preferences". The problem is, you seem to presume that playing in alternate tunings with your nails means that you should go with a certain wood combination -- and that's where there's a disconnect.

The only hint you are giving is the mention of Candyrat artists -- but then again Candyrat has such a diversified roster that it could mean anything.

To me, Candyrat means Andy McKee (even though he hasn't been with Candyrat for several years). I'd want a fat sounding Somogyi-esque guitar if that's the sound I was after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Wong View Post
From what I could recall, the O32 was really nice in standard tuning and DADGAD while the O22 lacked quite a bit in standard tuning but was MAGICAL in dropped tunings. Now I'm not too sure if this was due to the top or B&S. My best guess is that the O22 sounded better in dropped tunings was because it had a Cedar top which was more open sounding while the O32 had a tighter Sitka top and possibly the same reason why the O32 sounded better in standard tuning as well. But like I said, it is really hard to draw any conclusions with just 2 guitars...which is why I am resorting to you guys ><
No wood combination is universally better for alternate tunings than others. That is a flawed conception.

No matter what tonewood you go for, it'll sound like a Lowden. If you want more fundamentals, go with mahogany. If you want slightly more overtones, go with rosewood. If you really have no opinion, look at the guitar of your favourite Lowden player and choose the same specs.
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  #41  
Old 09-12-2014, 04:32 PM
J-F C J-F C is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
Hey Marcus, you're very patient. I would not have waited three days, let alone 16. Personal interactions are YMMV -- but business should be within one business day, two max. If someone makes me wait more than two days, I buy elsewhere.

In any case, I think part of the problem is that your question is a bit flawed. Quoting your initial post:



That is essentially what you provide as information on your "preferences". The problem is, you seem to presume that playing in alternate tunings with your nails means that you should go with a certain wood combination -- and that's where there's a disconnect.

The only hint you are giving is the mention of Candyrat artists -- but then again Candyrat has such a diversified roster that it could mean anything.

To me, Candyrat means Andy McKee (even though he hasn't been with Candyrat for several years). I'd want a fat sounding Somogyi-esque guitar if that's the sound I was after.



No wood combination is universally better for alternate tunings than others. That is a flawed conception.

No matter what tonewood you go for, it'll sound like a Lowden. If you want more fundamentals, go with mahogany. If you want slightly more overtones, go with rosewood. If you really have no opinion, look at the guitar of your favourite Lowden player and choose the same specs.
Please Marcus read this quoted post twice for it is simple, clear and wise.


JF C
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  #42  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:09 PM
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^^ +1 for truth.
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  #43  
Old 09-13-2014, 11:36 AM
Marcus Wong Marcus Wong is offline
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Thanks guys for all the advice. I have learnt a lot from this discussion
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  #44  
Old 09-13-2014, 03:34 PM
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Have you seen Jon Gomm's guitar? I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the eastetics (specially when it concerns back and sides).

Go spruce (alpine if you can).
Back and sides are a matter of taste. Personally, I am a big fan of maple. Maple in hands of a good builder is sheer magic....clear, warm , bright with enormous punch.
Lowden?....well, I think their customer service has been better in the past. For me getting the attention for my questions is important. unfortunately my experience has been the contrary. Today I still play Northern Irish guitar but from another builder. I sold my expensive Lowden of this very reason.

Marcus, there is no holy grail in guitars.....maybe Brazilian rw....but again if you top it with cedar there are days you are going to miss the crispness of spruce and if you top it with spruce there are days you are going to miss the warmth of cedar. That is of course if you are still in Lowden construction......until you play a Greenfield and then things are going to be different . If you are like most of us mortals.....(which I think you are), you won't keep this guitar for the rest of your life. We guitarists are irrational when it comes to buying guitars..we often don't know if it is the head or heart we should follow. Remember what you think you want is only valid for now not forever.....I guess I am trying to say to also think about what is worth your money.
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Last edited by Farhad; 09-13-2014 at 03:42 PM.
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  #45  
Old 09-13-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Farhad View Post
....but again if you top it with cedar there are days you are going to miss the crispness of spruce and if you top it with spruce there are days you are going to miss the warmth of cedar.
How about a spruce/cedar laminate for the top? Crispy warmth?
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  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

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40th anniversary lowden, cocobolo, cuban mahogany, fanned fret guitars, ziricote

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