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  #46  
Old 12-14-2021, 03:39 PM
reeve21 reeve21 is offline
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No to all the "usual suspects" mentioned here and more than a few others.

Yes to Roger Maris.
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  #47  
Old 12-14-2021, 11:03 PM
sayheyjeff sayheyjeff is offline
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I am happy to keep all the steroid guys and suspected steroid guys out of the Hall. However, I am one of the guys who would be particularly offended by the admitting of Pete Rose. It bothers me in life and in baseball when rules are made to protect the welfare and common good, and then those who have been proven to have broken those rules get a pass (much less a pass with honors). Can’t make always easily make adjustments for what went on in the past, but the present isn’t as difficult - or shouldn’t be - to hold these folks accountable. I think it would be far easier to hold these guys accountable if it was done more consistently. Hold The Patriots accountable, hold the Astros accountable, hold the Giants and Dodgers of the 60s accountable for doctoring fields, and on and on, and it isn’t so hard to hold these guys too. I really don’t think these are simple questions in the context of overall sports behavior. The fairness of the way the Salary caps and variations are established to level playing fields between small market and big market teams ….. endless examples in sports that do nothing to discourage players from sidestepping rules. For me it has become easier to watch the play and the game and be a little less invested in winning and championships (unless it’s my SF Giants). Ultimately, more happy for Minnie Minos, Tony O, Jim Kaat and the guys who did get in the Hall this year, than caring less and less about the ones this conversation was about before I started rambling.

Jeff
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2021, 06:25 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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Unfortunately, sports betting has become sanctioned by the major sports leagues now.

As for Pete Rose getting in, I see the argue shifting away from gambling in a general sense to that more of an "insider trading" argument that is akin to systematic signal stealing. His sin is calling in to question whether or not he was "throwing games" to make a win for his bookie.
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2021, 08:09 AM
roberts roberts is offline
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The gambler's DNA makes him "gettable" at some point. Dowd maintained that although he couldn't prove Rose bet against the Reds he would have developed that evidence with more time. Not that I find Dowd to be the most honorable guy either. Whatever, we haven't heard anything about gambling since then....
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  #50  
Old 12-15-2021, 08:26 AM
Street Glider Street Glider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberts View Post
The gambler's DNA makes him "gettable" at some point. Dowd maintained that although he couldn't prove Rose bet against the Reds he would have developed that evidence with more time. Not that I find Dowd to be the most honorable guy either. Whatever, we haven't heard anything about gambling since then....
Well, that's the thing: Evidence either exists or it doesn't. It shouldn't be "developed".

Looking at his on-the-field exploits (which is, ostensibly, what inductees are supposedly judged on), Rose should be in the HoF before a lot of other people...
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  #51  
Old 01-01-2022, 04:19 PM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Here’s an article that offers a perspective worthy of consideration:

I Investigated Bonds and Clemens. Yes, They Belong in Cooperstown.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/30/o...e=articleShare
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  #52  
Old 01-02-2022, 01:08 PM
Street Glider Street Glider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyhu View Post
Here’s an article that offers a perspective worthy of consideration:

I Investigated Bonds and Clemens. Yes, They Belong in Cooperstown.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/30/o...e=articleShare
Paywall...
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  #53  
Old 01-25-2022, 05:54 PM
roberts roberts is offline
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We just got our answer....
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2022, 09:03 AM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Big Papi in the HOF.
His lifetime World Series batting average is .455, the highest of all time among players with at least 40 plate appearances. He batted over .300 in his first two World Series, and then .688 (!) in his MVP third WS appearance.
He led the league in intentional walks in three of his last four seasons.
His lifetime ON base and Slugging percentage is among the top 40 of all time, ahead of Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Albert Pujols, Al Simmons, Mike Schmidt, Ken Griffey Jr …
Great individual and team player, a natural leader. He left the game on top. A very deserving entry.
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  #55  
Old 01-26-2022, 09:49 AM
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Tele1111 Tele1111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberts View Post
I wouldn't want to draw an equivalency between Rose and, say, John McGraw, who's in the Hall but was a suspected gambler on the game when he was active. You can make the case that McGraw should be out but this doesn't mean Rose should be in. Big difference between the emphasis on gambling in 1905, when players weren't paid regular salaries, and 1989....
I'm having trouble following your logic-they are equivalent. The difference being McGraw is already in. Are you saying the difference in pay justifies or somehow reduces the severity of the offense?
Emphasis on gambling? I think you're helping prove my point.

Either way, my point remains the same-betting is and has been endemic in the sport from day one of organized ball. It's not my opinion. It is a thoroughly documented fact.
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  #56  
Old 01-26-2022, 02:12 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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David Ortiz! So happy for him. So many huge hits that won meaningful games late in the season and of course in the playoffs/ World Series. Clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
Big Papi in the HOF.
His lifetime World Series batting average is .455, the highest of all time among players with at least 40 plate appearances. He batted over .300 in his first two World Series, and then .688 (!) in his MVP third WS appearance.
He led the league in intentional walks in three of his last four seasons.
His lifetime ON base and Slugging percentage is among the top 40 of all time, ahead of Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Albert Pujols, Al Simmons, Mike Schmidt, Ken Griffey Jr …
Great individual and team player, a natural leader. He left the game on top. A very deserving entry.
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  #57  
Old 01-26-2022, 03:33 PM
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Lkristians Lkristians is offline
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Agreed, Dru. Well deserved!
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  #58  
Old 01-26-2022, 03:54 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
David Ortiz! So happy for him. So many huge hits that won meaningful games late in the season and of course in the playoffs/ World Series. Clutch.
A big to that Dru. He was clutch personified.
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  #59  
Old 01-26-2022, 06:34 PM
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It's been a very long time since I cared about baseball. Since '94, MLB has made some dumb decisions.

The players have figured out just what to do to win.

2 pitches - fastball and faster ball.
Hit a home run

Nobody plays to get on base anymore. It is pretty boring and the ratings show it.

No to Bonds for sure. If not for dope, for the fact that he was a self admitted jerk his entire career. Did anyone really care when he hit #756?
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  #60  
Old 01-26-2022, 07:26 PM
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Big Papi's induction is great news!!
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