Fingerstyle from Zero?

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by TBman

If someone can't play 4 or 5 chords in a simple 100 bpm strumming tune without making mistakes and hesitating, spending time learning right hand finger style technique is a bit of putting the cart before the horse.

I've been playing guitar off and on for 15+ years and never have learned to string together cowboy chords and strum at 100bpm. I may never get around to it, there's always been other stuff that's more interesting than putting in a few hundred hours on the chord thing.

What I've had to do when learning tunes that involve chord shapes is to isolate each particular little series of triads in a specific tune and woodshed those changes for a week or so until I get them. In theory, if I'd started out by do the "cowboy chord strumming" thing for a year or so it would save me having to do that. But I'm satisfied with needing to stop and do little sequences as I come to them.

When I was doing fingerstyle/classical guitar (circa 2009) I spent most of my time in altered tunings where the shapes I was using didn't really derive from conventional open-position chords anyway.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

What I've had to do when learning tunes that involve chord shapes is to isolate each particular little series of triads in a specific tune and woodshed those changes for a week or so until I get them..

Same thing. Most of the cowboy chords are triads with add'l open strings.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by TBman

Same thing. Most of the cowboy chords are triads with add'l open strings.

Over the past year I've been taking lessons and we spend a good bit of time back-filling my chord knowledge as we go through various tunes I'm working on. But it's not the open-string chords but rather closed chords moving up and down the neck. Either "Freddie Green" three note shapes or the full four-note seventh chords. Don't know why I'm banging on since this is off-topic from OP's pursuit but that's what I've been up to, anyhow

[BadWithNames]

Originally Posted by TBman

Before anyone jumps into fingerstyle as beginner there is a certain amount of fretboard common sense that comes from learning to play chords and being able to play them with little effort. There is a ton of muscle memory (and dexterity) that gets acquired from the "cowboy" chords and later on from moveable barre chords.
.

I disagree - the conventional path for classical guitar is “fingerstyle” from the get-go - chords and fingerpicking together.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by BadWithNames

I disagree - the conventional path for classical guitar is “fingerstyle” from the get-go - chords and fingerpicking together.

Yes and imagine how frustrating it must be to start on Guiliani's 120 and you can't switch left hand positions cleanly.

[Jamolay]

Originally Posted by TBman

Yes and imagine how frustrating it must be to start on Guiliani's 120 and you can't switch left hand positions cleanly.

Been there.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

You are on a great hobby path for retirement, when that time comes. Music, especially guitar, CAN (I used caps because this is a guitar forum that instills GAS on occasion ) be very inexpensive once you are situated with a suitable guitar and a solid direction. In retirement, these things matter both from a financial standpoint as well as consideration for how you want to keep your mind active. There is always something new to learn with the guitar, so it will never get boring or outgrown.

Besides the guitar, any other materials (i.e. books, lessons, etc.) are all as optional as you want or need them to be. No matter what, you would always have that guitar to play.

Also, with that Adam Rafferty course, there is a section on how to arrange your favorite tunes for fingerstyle guitar. He uses "Silent Night" and goes through it in detail SLOWLY and step by step. You then can apply those same steps to any other tune you wish to arrange, so you are not stuck with having to have TAB that somebody else arranged and with songs that somebody else arranged instead of being able to choose what interests you.

The Six String Fingerpicking guy also has a whole course on arranging if you should ever feel the need for more. He splits up his courses into several so you don't have to buy one big course. He also has course bundles to save money.

A beginner fingerpicking course
An intermediate fingerpicking course
An advanced fingerpicking course
An arranging course

...and a couple of others that may or may not be of interest. However, the Adam Rafferty course may be all you need. If nothing else, you will have a solid foundation from which to tackle anything else that interests you.

Tony

The Rafferty course is great so far. 4 chords down and looking forward to picking. I swear I don't understand why everyone doesn't learn this way from the beginning. I think my twoish months of playing at the half dozen other sites really makes me appreciate him more.

He talks super slow so I just speed up the video to 1.74

The price is great too. Thanks!

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by TBman

Stop.
If someone can't play 4 or 5 chords in a simple 100 bpm strumming tune without making mistakes and hesitating, spending time learning right hand finger style technique is a bit of putting the cart before the horse.

I disagree. It doesn't have to be/shouldn't be either/or.

I think the process of putting neither first but figuring out how right and left work together early on puts one ahead of the game.

For me, the spoon-fed chord strumming to awful backing track is so moronic my mind wanders and I can't wait to leave. It's no wonder people make mistakes and hesitate, because it's torture and an insult to intelligence. It's like teaching someone to walk by only allowing someone to use one limb and binding the others. Coordination is sacrificed. Breaking things down and isolating things doesn't do anybody any favors, in my opinion. It artificially introduces more hoops to jump through.

It wasn't until I found a fingerstyle practice sheet randomly on the internet that guitar lessons had any hope of being interesting. It was way more interesting to hold down a chord and discover how a finger pattern interactd with it. Complexity and challenge are why learning is interesting.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

I disagree. It doesn't have to be/shouldn't be either/or.

I think the process of putting neither first but figuring out how right and left work together early on puts one ahead of the game.

For me, the spoon-fed chord strumming to awful backing track is so moronic my mind wanders and I can't wait to leave. It's no wonder people make mistakes and hesitate, because it's torture and an insult to intelligence. It's like teaching someone to walk by only allowing someone to use one limb and binding the others. Coordination is sacrificed. Breaking things down and isolating things doesn't do anybody any favors, in my opinion. It artificially introduces more hoops to jump through.

It wasn't until I found a fingerstyle practice sheet randomly on the internet that guitar lessons had any hope of being interesting. It was way more interesting to hold down a chord and discover how a finger pattern interactd with it. Complexity and challenge are why learning is interesting.

Sure, what do I know, lol. I cant play. Dont listen to my videos.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

The Rafferty course is great so far. 4 chords down and looking forward to picking. I swear I don't understand why everyone doesn't learn this way from the beginning. I think my twoish months of playing at the half dozen other sites really makes me appreciate him more.

He talks super slow so I just speed up the video to 1.74

The price is great too. Thanks!

I am glad the course is working for you. Since you have made your choice and are already moving along that path, it is probably a good idea to just do that and let this thread run its course.

Tony

[TBman]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

4 chords down and looking forward to picking.

Wow, learning chords first, then right hand later. Who would have thought.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by TBman

Wow, learning chords first, then right hand later. Who would have thought.

Yes you are pedantically correct, but they are not being separated by months like in other programs.

I'm sure a lot of people got to pro level doing what you did to get where you are. I'd rather find methods that work for me.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I am glad the course is working for you. Since you have made your choice and are already moving along that path, it is probably a good idea to just do that and let this thread run its course.

Tony

Very wise.

Oh, and just fyi to the thread my father was a music teacher and my entire family were musicians of everything except guitar. I've also been a teacher of English and dance. There are many kinds of learning styles and not as many kinds of pedagogy to match them. I knew there HAD to be somebody out there that had a more holistic approach from the beginning and I figured I'd find it here.

Thanks to you and all the others (forgive me if I missed responding to anyone) who have been helpful vs. critical responding to my original request. I'm glad for the forum and all the wonderful and helpful suggestions!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

Yes you are pedantically correct, but they are not being separated by months like in other programs.

Have not come across any half way decent program that does that. Quite quickly techniques are integrated into actual playing music however basic those early pieces are.

Of course an individual may get bogged down in some particular technique or theory study and miss out on some of the synthesis which is music.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

Yes you are pedantically correct, but they are not being separated by months like in other programs.

I'm sure a lot of people got to pro level doing what you did to get where you are. I'd rather find methods that work for me.

That's fine. We all change things to suit ourselves a bit. Picking hand drills can be hampered by a fretting hand that can't get into the right position fast enough. That's why fretting hand development has to be the priority.