A good practice for learning the fretboard

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by MigueldeMaria

A key with lots of sharps and flats will be difficult in the sense of naming/knowing the notes in it. Being able to pick out the notes of a scale is a very different thing than instantly knowing where all those notes are on the fingerboard, at all times.

Ahh.. OK.

I suppose that it is the way my brain works! I don't personally have a need to know the note names at present, so they are of no real interest to me. I do understand and can hear intervals however, so that's sort of how I feel the fretboard under my fingers.

If you sing me a phrase, I'll play it. And I can usually hear the mode a tune is being played in (Ionian, Mixolidian, Aeolian, Dorian). And I can most usually find the chord progression by ear. At least for the bluegrass and old time music genera that I play.

I'm sure that if I wanted to learn to be a jazz guitarists then I'd probably adopt a similar approach. I'd start by listening to loads and loads of the music, then learn some of the fundamental movable chord shapes and rhythmic styles (as those are the two aspects that jump out at me when I watch a jazz guitar player), then just dive straight in. If I felt that it was essential for some reason to know the name of every note on the fretboard in standard tuning to play jazz then I would learn that - I can't see it taking long. But I can't actually see a reason to do it either, at the moment!

For me, a lot depends on the language other musicians are using. So, in old time, the tradition is aural. I was introduced to and learnt the tunes by ear. All those tunes in the Cader Idris Sessions in my signature bellow I learnt by ear. In bluegrass, the tradition is to call tunes in the Nashville system, so I learnt that. In a Welsh MVC, the tradition is to read SMN on a four part score, so I learnt that. Although I actually follow the intervals off the music when I sing and not the note names. When I look at a piece of music I hear the tune, I couldn't actually tell you the note names without sitting down and working it out - because, so far, I really haven't needed to know!

[Kyle215]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

Absolutely, fiddle tunes are fun to play and are a great exercise in alternate picking but playing scales and arpeggios have their own reward. If you want to improvise over chord changes I suggest that you study the major and minor pentatonic scales, arpeggios especially the dom 7 arpeggios, and the various forms of the diminished scale (whole step, half step and half step, whole step). There's really no end to it and I think that is part of the allure. There is always something to gain in terms of musical knowledge.

Yeah, I mean certainly also valuable stuff. For me, though, the scales felt very academic and I didn’t really start to “get it” until I started connecting the notes to tunes and actual chord progressions… that’s me though, I’m a “learn by doing” person.

[CASD57]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Blimey! I'm totally off the page here! 50 years of banging stuff out on guitar on and off (and the last 3 years of concerted daily playing) and I have no idea what notes I'm playing without sitting down and working it out; which I have found no need to do.

Never practiced scales.

I sort of read music, just the melody line, to sing in choir or to play old Welsh dance tunes on my home made fretted zither. But not the note names. I just follow the pattern of intervals and the timing. I often transpose on the fly like that: so I'm reading a tune in say D from a fiddle book but playing it in G or C or whatever I happen to be tuned to, or to fit in when playing with someone else on a different instrument.

If I want to play a fiddle tune on guitar, then I just listen to a fiddler playing it and work it out by ear from there. Not that I really want to play fiddle tunes on guitar; there are far better instruments for that purpose to take to an old time session; where the guitar's job is to play rhythm.

I suppose, coming from claw hammer banjo and dulcimer (and alt tuned guitar to some extent, and even cross tuned fiddle) I can't see the point in "learning the fretboard" because it is a constantly moving feast.

With my guitar playing I use a capo. For my present song set I capo on every fret between the nut and the 6th and use open chords. On different days I may play the same song a semitone higher or a semitone lower depending on how my voice is going. So I just move the capo. I use the Nashville system to call chord sequences rather than chord names when playing with others - it just makes more sense.

I really don't think that I am missing out by not knowing all notes of the guitar fretboard in standard tuning. I just don't need to know them, or how to play scales, because of the way I use the instrument.

I would have to say, for the majority of beginners who buy an acoustic guitar, learning how to lay down a solid right hand rhythm and perform smooth open chord changes will get them where they want to go with the instrument. Very few folks will ever need to know the fretboard, note for note, or be able to play scales up and down the neck in order for them to get the instrument to do the job they want.

I couldn't have described myself any better....(The guitar parts

[Bluenose]

I've been playing the guitar for around 50 years most of that time rather poorly I might add but anyway I thought I'd start a thread to maybe help out someone just beginning. Despite my good intentions the thread turns into another 'pissing match'. I've got to find a better way to spend my time.

[bleedingfingers]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

I've been playing the guitar for around 50 years most of that time rather poorly I might add but anyway I thought I'd start a thread to maybe help out someone just beginning. Despite my good intentions the thread turns into another 'pissing match'. I've got to find a better way to spend my time.

FWIW, as one of the beginners you were targeting, I found the thread useful, so thanks

Guitar learning is such a complicated thing because there are so many different well-established traditions that approach it from completely different angles -- so a certain amount of "why would you even want to do that?" reaction is perhaps instinctive from those steeped in tradition D when presented with someone trying tradition 4...

I have background on other instruments (piano, various brass) and of working from standard notation on those, so for me "learning the notes" is one of the things I have focused on so far in my pathway into guitar. I'd eventually like to be able to pick up sheet music and sight-read it on guitar like I can on other instruments, so for me "building up" from a notes foundation is important

At least for me the two exercises described in https://guitargearfinder.com/lessons...the-fretboard/ have been pretty effective. The "one string at a time, natural notes only" exercise has especially helped me with trying to understand the layout of the fretboard

[MigueldeMaria]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

So, in old time, the tradition is aural. I was introduced to and learnt the tunes by ear. All those tunes in the Cader Idris Sessions in my signature bellow I learnt by ear. In bluegrass, the tradition is to call tunes in the Nashville system, so I learnt that. In a Welsh MVC, the tradition is to read SMN on a four part score, so I learnt that. Although I actually follow the intervals off the music when I sing and not the note names. When I look at a piece of music I hear the tune, I couldn't actually tell you the note names without sitting down and working it out - because, so far, I really haven't needed to know!

Makes complete sense! I am rather weak at playing by ear, so I envy the way you learned, and am working hard to remedy that at the moment. Knowing the note names in weird keys probably isn't of much use to most players, most of the time.

[why2]

You want to learn the neck of the guitar? Learn Segovia's scales.

It's not easy but it will take your knowledge up a notch or two.
It literally took me a year to get them down from memory and then you branch out from there. It's also interesting delving into how he was thinking when he created the structures and why he laid them out the way he did.

I should have done it years ago.

why2