How do dreadnaughts and jumbos differ?

[12FanMan]

What are the differences between a jumbo and a dreadnaught? My FG-820 is a dread. What would be different if it were a jumbo? In my newbie mind..a jumbo would be one of those massive guitars you see guys strolling around Mexican restaurants with.

[RussellHawaii]

As I understand it, a jumbo will have a narrower waist, allowing it to sit more comfortably on your knee, and ergonomically a little easier to reach around and play. It will usually have a slightly wider lower bout, but not always. Dreads have a wider waist and will not vary from the classic shape.
Similar in overall interior volume, and acoustic volume, but to my ears a jumbo has a more versatile sound, a little less bass-heavy. A dread is very strong in the bass register, a jumbo a bit more balanced in that regard.
The big guitar you are picturing in a Mariachi band is probably an acoustic bass, much larger.
I’m happy to be corrected by those who know better.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by RussellHawaii

As I understand it, a jumbo will have a narrower waist, allowing it to sit more comfortably on your knee, and ergonomically a little easier to reach around and play. It will usually have a slightly wider lower bout, but not always. Dreads have a wider waist and will not vary from the classic shape.
Similar in overall interior volume, and acoustic volume, but to my ears a jumbo has a more versatile sound, a little less bass-heavy. A dread is very strong in the bass register, a jumbo a bit more balanced in that regard.
The big guitar you are picturing in a Mariachi band is probably an acoustic bass, much larger.
I’m happy to be corrected by those who know better.

I pretty much agree with you. I find a jumbo to have a more balanced sound with more of an emphasis on the mids ... but that could just be because the bass is softened a bit.

I also find the jumbo is easier to hold than a dreadnought. I think its size may alarm people but when they play it they may change their mind.

Btw, it's somewhat interesting to find out how and why the dreadnought was made and how it got its iconic name. My understanding is that Martin designers named it after the H.M.S. Dreadnought, which at the time was the largest battleship ever made. And so the new guitar was the biggest guitar ever made ... at that time ... so it was named the dreadnought.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

What are the differences between a jumbo and a dreadnaught? My FG-820 is a dread. What would be different if it were a jumbo? In my newbie mind..a jumbo would be one of those massive guitars you see guys strolling around Mexican restaurants with.

Hi 12ManFAn
Dreadnought are around 15.5" - 16" across the lower bout, while Jumbo are 16" - 17" across the lower bout with a smaller upper bout than Dreadnought(mini-jumbo or small-jumbo often shaped like Jumbo but 15" or so across with a small upper bout).

Exceptions are built every year which are smaller or larger than I described them.

{correction}…I misspoke about what I consider measurements for Dreads and Jumbos & updated it…{correction}

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Dreadnought are around 15" across the lower bout, while Jumbo are 16" across the lower bout

I consider Guild jumbos to be the true jumbos, which are 17" across the lower bout (or actually 17.25"). That's true for Guild 6-string and 12-string jumbos. They're also 5" at their widest, IIRC. I believe Gibson's SJ200 ("super jumbo") also has those dimensions.


Guild JF30-12 (jumbo)

[warfrat73]

It depends on who you ask. There's jumbos, and super jumbos and mini-jumbos, etc.

But, a lot of guitars that are frequently referred to as slope dreads are called Jumbos by Gibson... the J in J-45, AJ, SJ, etc all stand for jumbo.

In that case it's a bit more of a rounded off upper bout and bit wider lower bout, but they're pretty close in size.

The term is a bit of a moving target.

[Monty Christo]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

In my newbie mind..a jumbo would be one of those massive guitars you see guys strolling around Mexican restaurants with.

You're referring to a guitarròn mexicano, which is essentially a six-string bass.

Here's an article on guitar sizes that covers the basics.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

I consider Guild jumbos to the the true jumbos, which are 17" across the lower bout (or actually 17.25"). That's true for Guild 6-string and 12-string jumbos. They're also 5" at their widest, IIRC. I believe Gibson's SJ200 ("super jumbo") also has those dimensions.


Guild JF30-12 (jumbo)

Hi DCC…
Of course they are Jumbo - whether they are THE standard for jumbos, or the defining design for Jumbo I'm not willing to commit to.

And I misspoke in my original post about this - I meant to say Dreads are usually 15-16" and Jumbo up to 17" and beyond. I blame it on early morning without the boost of the early morning coffee. I went back and amended my post.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

…What would be different if it were a jumbo?

Hi 12FM
Probably the tonal balance of the Jumbo might be more even than the Dreadnought - a typical Dread (especially Rosewood/Spruce) would have stronger bass…not necessarily louder, just more prevalent in the sound.

The depth of the bodies are usually different, and upper bouts might be differently shaped. The Gibson J slope shoulder series look like a Dreadnought in the upper bout but are wider in the lower bout. Other Mini-Jumbo (small jumbo) have a smaller upper bout and a narrow waist. Also, some Jumbos have less variation between the depth of the body twixt tail and upper bout.

I love the look of an SJ (small jumbo) with it's upper bout being more OM sized/shaped…which creates a narrower waist.

And there are many variations of each produced by different companies and builders.

The bass instrument in Mariachi bands is a different family of stringed instruments separate from traditional acoustic guitars. Seems like a cousin to the orchestral string bass.

[Stonehauler]

Jumbo - this is typically the largest guitar most manufacturers will have. It's also referred to as a "super jumbo" by certain Gibson fanboys. Good examples are the Guild F55 and the Gibson SJ-200 They are larger body guitars and have the ability to project a significant amount of volume acoustically. If you are looking to fill a larger room with sound and don't plan of using amplification, you probably want a jumbo. These will typically have better bass response than any other model guitar, but still have a nice midrange and treble response as well. Some will point you towards maple, and for a 12 string I would agree as it doesn't muddle the harmonics of a 12 the way rosewood can, but for a 6 string, Mahogany, Rosewood, and Maple all make for a good 6 string jumbo.

Dreadnaughts are the go to all around guitar. it has enough volume to fill a family room or small coffee shop with ease unamplified, but it won't overpower that smaller atmosphere. It also is a smaller instrument than a jumbo (btw, Gibson fanboys will refer to a dreadnaught as a Jumbo...the J-45 for instance). It's big enough to give great sound and decent bass response, but small enough for all but the smallest players. to play comfortably.

If most people were forced to choose one guitar, most would probably choose a dreadnaught style/size guitar. There is a reason it's the most copied guitar style in the world. I would prefer a jumbo, but I'm also a big guy. That said, some bigger guys have elbow issues and prefer smaller guitars and some smaller people might prefer the way the jumbo sits on their leg.

Smaller guitars will typically not have sufficient bass response for some people (like me), while others prefer smaller guitars.

Dreads can also be built and voiced to support a singer's voice better than other guitars

The size isn't as big a deal that some make it out to be, it's not the "big guitar" you see in a mariachi band. If you can play a dread, you can probably play a jumbo too.

[LawrenceMollard]

I've owned a fair amount of dreadnoughts but only one super-jumbo, a Gibson J-100, which is kind of a no frills J-200.

I was expecting it to be some loud and booming instrument, but it's not, it's actually more or less quieter than most dreadnoughts I've had and very well balanced across its range.

I get the feeling that the SJ type guitar is an all around good guitar style that would pretty much do anything a guitar can do.

[Alan Carruth]

IMO the feature that makes the most difference in the tone is the outline of the body: the sharper and more pinched in waist of the Jumbo as compared with the Dread. If you make two guitars of the same width and length, but one has the Jumbo outline and the other is a Dread the Jumbo tends to have a clearer and more balanced tone. The reasons seem to be pretty complex.

One guitar researcher has posited that there is an upper limit in size for any particular guitar, based, in part, on how the top is braced. If you make two structures to the same design and use the same sizes of wood, but one is bigger then the other, the bigger one won't be as stiff. Since top stiffness (or lack of it) is what ultimately dooms guitars the larger one has to be 'beefed up' to hold up as long. That researcher showed that the power output (not 'loudness') of a guitar depends on the ratio between the vibrating area of the top (particularly the lower bout) and it's mass, a higher ratio of A/m makes more sound. As you enlarge a particular design, and beef it up to retain the stiffness, the A/m ratio drops off. It makes less sound. As it turns out, standard style X bracing seems to top out at about a 16" wide lower bout.

Gibson originated as a maker of archtop guitars. The carved arch is so inherently stiff that you can make a guitar that way that's pretty much as wide as you like without running into stiffness issues. They settled a 17" or so lower bout width for ergonomic reasons: as they get bigger they're hard to play. Gibson, and others, actually made archtops 19" wide, and even more in some cases.

When Gibson decided to expand their line into flat tops in the 30s they used the ~17" body, since they already had the tooling for that. It's a bit on the big side for a flat top, so it's harder to get a durable instrument. Also, Gibson has never been famous for quality control.

[Silly Moustache]

The dreadnought was developed by Martin.
1916 - a one off for a guy in Hawaii,
1920(ish) some made for Oliver Ditson company.
1931. Martin introduced the ORIGINAL (12 fret) branded dread - the D1 & D2.
1934 Martin modified the dreadnought as a rhythm guitar (14 frets, thin rhythm neck).It was initially called the "OM" (replacing the modified 000 modification, which was discontinued in 1933.

Gibson had obviously been looking at the original dread, and designed their first "Jumbo" in the same year ('34) - but with a 14 fret short scale neck.
1935 - Gibson introduced the Advanced Jumbo - (AJ) with slightly modified body shape and 25.5" scale.
1938 - Gibson introduces the SJ200 17" body width. (maple or rosewood)
1939 - Gibson introduces the Super Jumbo (SJ100) a 17"body.

Then Gibson got really silly and dropped the S from SJ (apart from when it was a Jumbo (?!) and even produced a "southern Jumbo which was the SJN !

Terms liker slope dread or slope shoulder dread are bandied about, seemingly trying to avoid using the word Jumbo, but the only real "slope shouldered dread" would be the Martin original dreadnought.

Worth watching :

and great info about both brands : http://guitarhq.com

and here's me rambling about this :

[donlyn]

How do dreadnaughts and jumbos differ?

Jumbo is spelled correctly.

Don
.

[Dotneck]

While Silly is correct about the historical development of guitars if we realize that language evolves then it’s easier to understand that, these days a jumbo is essentially identified by its 17 in lower bout and narrow waist. Like the Guild pictured above or the Gibson J-200.