Virtual instruments

[TBman]

I love the sound of flute and/or violin mixed with guitar for certain Celtic tunes. If I wanted to do a little bit of synthetic work to use in between guitar sections what software could I use that doesn't break the bank, free is even better.

[AcousticDreams]

Dear TBman,

I am heavily researching this subject matter.

My history on this:

Back in the 70's I love to overdubb Symphonic tracks onto my music. I used a rare machine called a Chamberlain. Chamberlain was the inventor of the Melotron. Basically this was a Keyboard Tape machine.

Think of a piano with strings. But instead of strings...there is a Tape. Instead of a piano hammer...there is a a tape record playback head and it comes down onto the Tape. The tape is NOT endless...it goes in one direction for 8 seconds. Thus after 8 seconds you have to lift you finger up and the tape will rewind.
This gave a great realistic sound, as you heard the first bowing of a violin. The First Breath of a flute.

Chamberlain held 8 instruments..as it used a 1/2 tape. Melotron's only held 3 instruments. I had on my Chamberlain Violins, Cellos, Oboe, bassoon, Flute, French horn and Trumpet & Trombone. The Group that used the Melotron very successfully was the " Moody Blues"

Very difficult instrument to keep up and working...Tape head alignment could get off track easy if you moved it....but easy to operate...just select you preset and go. I sold mine years ago. They still make the Melotrons new.

NOW, there are these wonderful Symphony programs. And they are even more realistic than a Melotron. And the best part...is you can get into it fairly inexpensive. You need a Keyboard...which a reasonable one can be had for a $100 more or less. And you can buy programs from anywhere's to Free from $70 to $500. But from what I have heard...they are not always easy to program. They are certainly not like the easy presets of the Melotron. That is what my friends are telling me...that there is a lot to learn with these symphonic programs.

So what I am investigating right now, is Which programs are easier to learn and Program. Very Unfortunately, this is a subject matter that sales people can not answer very easily. And ridiculously, there does not seem to be much SUPPORT from any of the program makers. I can not find how to call them direct and ask them questions on which programs I should buy. CRAZY! Instead they want you to watch 30 minutes videos on each of their 100 products.

So, I am doing lots of connecting and researching on this subject matter. It is just going to take some time. I want to make the right decision the first time. That is generally not possible...but that is my hope.

Doug Young also has an interest in this...

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by TBman

I love the sound of flute and/or violin mixed with guitar for certain Celtic tunes. If I wanted to do a little bit of synthetic work to use in between guitar sections what software could I use that doesn't break the bank, free is even better.

Spitfire Audio. BBC Symphony Orchestra. I dunno how they do it for the cost of entry. Somethings rival my very expensive East West libraries. The best bargain currently available.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Spitfire Audio. BBC Symphony Orchestra. I dunno how they do it for the cost of entry. Somethings rival my very expensive East West libraries. The best bargain currently available.

Please tell us more!

When I searched for Spitfire Audio. BBC Symphony Orchestra it came up at $999? But then there was something below that at $249.

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a...-professional/

IS this easy to get sounds up and running? Or does this take a bit of programming like East West? As I mentioned, people are telling me that with many programs it is a bit harder to get up a sound. Being a complete newbee in this area, would like to have something that gets me on track easier

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by TBman

I love the sound of flute and/or violin mixed with guitar for certain Celtic tunes. If I wanted to do a little bit of synthetic work to use in between guitar sections what software could I use that doesn't break the bank, free is even better.

Interesting that you picked those two instruments. Whether it's played from a rompler or a fancy sample library, the flute family is super easy to fake, especially if you keep the notes short, while strings are super hard. If you're willing to forgo the fiddle and just stick with flute/piccolo/recorder/pipes, you can probably do it with a second hand "home keyboard" for next to nothing.

[Chipotle]

Reaper can handle virtual instruments just fine. There are also plenty of free virtual instrument plugins out there. You get far more flexibility and often quality from paid ones, although they can get expensive! Just search "free vsti" or "free virtual instruments". I found one a while back called "DSK Strings" that was serviceable.

It can be helpful to have a small MIDI keyboard/controller of some sort, as it can be tedious to type or click notes by hand. I have a little 25-note keyboard, Alesis VMini (that was $50 just a few months ago but prices have gone up!). But the built-in virtual keyboard can work at the expense of probably more editing later to clean up. You can also just enter your lines note-by-note on the piano roll editor.

Knives&Guitars, pretty much all virtual instruments work the same way. You get a DAW plugin, create a MIDI track, and then set the plugin to respond to the MIDI. Things like drums are more complicated since there are multiple channels of MIDI, but an instrument like fiddle or flute isn't as tough.

TBman, there is a learning curve! But here are the steps that can get you going in 2 minutes:

• Start Reaper, create a new track
• View > Virtual MIDI Keyboard to show the keyboard
• Add your VSTi (virtual instrument) in the FX for the track. To try things out, just use the built-in ReaSynth plugin (it will be in the VSTi section).
• Arm your track, then set the input to MIDI > Virtual MIDI Keyboard > All Channels
• Use your mouse or computer keyboard to press the virtual piano keys, and you should hear sound.
• Hit Record, and start playing the virtual keyboard (you may need to click into it once to get focus if you want to use the computer keyboard). Your MIDI notes will be recorded.
• Disarm track and you can play back your performance.
• To edit the MIDI, double click the MIDI item on the track. This will open up the MIDI "piano roll" editor. You can move, add or delete notes (both pitch and location), change duration, quantize, etc. Lots of details here I won't go into.

If you'd rather just create MIDI notes by hand, do "Insert > New MIDI Item" on to the track, then double-click the item. This will bring up the editor where you can add notes in the piano roll format.

The basics aren't too hard, but there's a lot you can get into as you explore--just like the rest of using a DAW.

[superbitterdave]

I’ll echo what the others have alluded to. Most DAWs (on my iPad both GarageBand and Cubasis) have MIDI instruments that will let you add virtual instruments. If you already have a DAW, chances are, you don’t need to pay anything to experiment with what is already packaged with the app.

And if you don’t have a DAW, they make recording and editing pretty easy, so that may be step one as you are exploring this.

Cheers

Dave

[KevWind]

Perhaps it time to back up a bit
First to the OP and anybody who is new to VI (virtual instruments) and interested
The best way to get efficient targeted advice is to clarify what computer PC or Mac and what recording software (DAW) you are using (At least from me anyway as sadly I don't remember what different individuals are using ) .

As others have noted basically you talking about the programing of Midi notes to trigger virtual instruments (which come as Plugins for your DAW)
This can done manually often in the VI's specific GUI (usually showing a Keyboard) or In the DAW midi/instrument track itself usually with a pencil tool and when you do so you will also hear the sound of what ever VI you have selected for that track
Or with a midi Keyboard controller that is synced to your DAW so that when you hit keys on it, it will both sound the virtual instrument so you can hear it and enter the midi notes into the midi/instrument track that you are recording on .
In most cases VI's have a bundled Library of sounds that come with the download of the VI, and many also offer additional libraries that can also be downloaded to expand the selections


As for Knives&Guitars question it's really hard to answer for somebody else what hard or easy is .
There is of course the down loading process and then the how to set up Midi recording in your specific DAW . But once you are to where you are getting sound out of the virtual instrument and it is putting notes into the midi edit track. Midi is pretty straight forward and much easier to edit and manipulate than audio because for one thing it is endlessly re-doable .

Here is a track with mostly audio with a VI string orchestra winding in and out of the background

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Here is a track with mostly audio with a VI string orchestra winding in and out of the background

Rolling back around to the first post, OP seems to want solo instruments. Faking a solo fiddle is very difficult, even for a pro. In the case of single-note section samples like the one in your song (very nice, btw), you might try playing the part with your left hand on the pitch wheel so you can fine-tune the pitch by ear. And if you've got a harmonized or contrapuntal arrangement, play one part at a time with your hand on the wheel. With string samples, especially, the pitches might be accurate frequency-wise but that doesn't mean they'll sound in tune in your track.

[robj144]

Check out Spitfire Labs. It's all free and is super high quality. You can even get a whole orchestra for free.

It's amazing for free.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Please tell us more!

When I searched for Spitfire Audio. BBC Symphony Orchestra it came up at $999? But then there was something below that at $249.

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a...-professional/

IS this easy to get sounds up and running? Or does this take a bit of programming like East West? As I mentioned, people are telling me that with many programs it is a bit harder to get up a sound. Being a complete newbee in this area, would like to have something that gets me on track easier

They have a free version that is pretty nice.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Rolling back around to the first post, OP seems to want solo instruments. Faking a solo fiddle is very difficult, even for a pro. In the case of single-note section samples like the one in your song (very nice, btw), you might try playing the part with your left hand on the pitch wheel so you can fine-tune the pitch by ear. And if you've got a harmonized or contrapuntal arrangement, play one part at a time with your hand on the wheel. With string samples, especially, the pitches might be accurate frequency-wise but that doesn't mean they'll sound in tune in your track.

Yes the OP , I quite agree while I have managed some passable flute solo stuff, but have never liked any solo violin I have tried


The track was more for Knives&Guitars who seemed to be interested in orchestral sounds

Good to know about the pitch wheel thing , thanks

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by robj144

They have a free version that is pretty nice.

Are you talking about the Spitfire LABS stuff? Looks like some nice samples. It does require an extra step compared to some VSTis, having to install the Spitfire Audio app first, then load the actual instrument. Often the app can be used to play the instrument standalone as well as be used as a plugin. Others work like this too, including Kontact.

Many of the expensive library companies offer a few freebies like this, they are worth looking for.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Reaper can handle virtual instruments just fine. There are also plenty of free virtual instrument plugins out there. You get far more flexibility and often quality from paid ones, although they can get expensive! Just search "free vsti" or "free virtual instruments". I found one a while back called "DSK Strings" that was serviceable.

It can be helpful to have a small MIDI keyboard/controller of some sort, as it can be tedious to type or click notes by hand. I have a little 25-note keyboard, Alesis VMini (that was $50 just a few months ago but prices have gone up!). But the built-in virtual keyboard can work at the expense of probably more editing later to clean up. You can also just enter your lines note-by-note on the piano roll editor.

Knives&Guitars, pretty much all virtual instruments work the same way. You get a DAW plugin, create a MIDI track, and then set the plugin to respond to the MIDI. Things like drums are more complicated since there are multiple channels of MIDI, but an instrument like fiddle or flute isn't as tough.

TBman, there is a learning curve! But here are the steps that can get you going in 2 minutes:

• Start Reaper, create a new track
• View > Virtual MIDI Keyboard to show the keyboard
• Add your VSTi (virtual instrument) in the FX for the track. To try things out, just use the built-in ReaSynth plugin (it will be in the VSTi section).
• Arm your track, then set the input to MIDI > Virtual MIDI Keyboard > All Channels
• Use your mouse or computer keyboard to press the virtual piano keys, and you should hear sound.
• Hit Record, and start playing the virtual keyboard (you may need to click into it once to get focus if you want to use the computer keyboard). Your MIDI notes will be recorded.
• Disarm track and you can play back your performance.
• To edit the MIDI, double click the MIDI item on the track. This will open up the MIDI "piano roll" editor. You can move, add or delete notes (both pitch and location), change duration, quantize, etc. Lots of details here I won't go into.

If you'd rather just create MIDI notes by hand, do "Insert > New MIDI Item" on to the track, then double-click the item. This will bring up the editor where you can add notes in the piano roll format.

The basics aren't too hard, but there's a lot you can get into as you explore--just like the rest of using a DAW.

Thanks. I can't record what I'm doing with the piano roll though. Nor can I record with other midi plugins I'm trying out. (Flute, piano)

[Cocobolo Kid]

Native Instruments Kontakt is probably the most popular sampler. Kontakt has a huge 55 GB library of instruments. A lot of other companies make virtual instruments that use Kontakt, so if you own it, it opens up a ton of possibilities. Not free, but easy to find on sale.

For world instruments, MOTU Ethno 2 is pretty cool. It is not free either, but it has a huge 21 GB library of sounds.