Artificial harmonics...

[Brent Hahn]

If it helps at all, I first learned to do it by watching Jaco Pastorius on bass. He'd put the knuckle of his thumb on the string and pluck with his middle finger. I can't move very fast that way, but I can get a lot of torque into it. Enough so that it's possible to get at least a little bit "harmonicky" almost anywhere on the string, and the margin for error is huge compared to the tip of my index finger.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Wrighty



What are you referring to when you mention an articial harmonic?

LJ

I am referring to plucking the string with my A finger while touching the string at the appropriate point with my I finger - while fretting with my left hand.

In this piece, capo is on 3rd fret and fretted note is at 7th fret so initial harmonic is just beyond the end of the fretboard at 19th - making it a challenge to be accurate.

My Webber however, I am hitting them 80-90% of the time and they sound loud and resonant whereas my Furch I am at around 50% and they are not generally as resonant.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

If it helps at all, I first learned to do it by watching Jaco Pastorius on bass. He'd put the knuckle of his thumb on the string and pluck with his middle finger. I can't move very fast that way, but I can get a lot of torque into it. Enough so that it's possible to get at least a little bit "harmonicky" almost anywhere on the string, and the margin for error is huge compared to the tip of my index finger.

Thanks Brent, that’s an interesting technique.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

LJ

I am referring to plucking the string with my A finger while touching the string at the appropriate point with my I finger - while fretting with my left hand.

In this piece, capo is on 3rd fret and fretted note is at 7th fret so initial harmonic is just beyond the end of the fretboard at 19th - making it a challenge to be accurate.

My Webber however, I am hitting them 80-90% of the time and they sound loud and resonant whereas my Furch I am at around 50% and they are not generally as resonant.

Hi W
Thanks…

I call those 'fretted' harmonics. I fret the note and then use my plucking index finger to touch the string at the proper interval, and pluck the string in front of that point with my thumb (toward headstock).

A friend of mine calls them pinch harmonics (he frets the note and pinches the string at an octave/fifth point). Another of our friends achieves them with an angled flat pick-n-thumb move.

I find one of my electrics doesn't produce touch-harmonics/false-harmonics as well as all the rest of my acoustics and electrics. Easiest to activate on an electric bass. One of my OMs requires a more precise and narrower area of 'touch' to make them activate.

[mercy]

Im not usually responding to threads nowadays tho I read them but I feel strongly about this as I have experienced the same thing as the OP. It is not "operator error" but different guitars do harmonics differently. Also there is only one place on the string that "fretted harmonics" or "open harmonics" can be achieved. You cant move your right hand to a arbitrarily different position.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by mercy

Im not usually responding to threads nowadays tho I read them but I feel strongly about this as I have experienced the same thing as the OP. It is not "operator error" but different guitars do harmonics differently. Also there is only one place on the string that "fretted harmonics" or "open harmonics" can be achieved. You cant move your right hand to a arbitrarily different position.

Good to have you here mercy!

I’m unsure - I’m not confident enough in my technique to rule out user error, but it would seem to be guitar influenced..

I want to know if it can be improved on the weaker guitar.

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Hi all

I am learning a piece with a few of these in at the moment - what’s interesting is that on my Webber I hit these a lot more cleanly and consistently than on my Furch.

I thought initially it may be coincidence, but i am sure now it isn’t - the Webber just seems to be easier to get the loud ringing tones of a decent harmonic.

What makes a guitar better or worse in this area - and can it be improved? Is it a set up issue or action related?

Thanks in advance.

Peter

I don't know but my Webber OM is the same way compared to my other three guitars.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by mercy

Im not usually responding to threads nowadays tho I read them but I feel strongly about this as I have experienced the same thing as the OP. It is not "operator error" but different guitars do harmonics differently. Also there is only one place on the string that "fretted harmonics" or "open harmonics" can be achieved. You cant move your right hand to a arbitrarily different position.

Well, if you are playing open string/natural harmonics, then for sure you can move your picking hand around.

I wonder how open string/natural harmonics do ring on this guitar. If they ring fine, but the same harmonic played elsewhere as an artificial harmonic is dull, then perhaps it is a setup issue and the fretting string is being dampened.

If open harmonics are already weak, then that would seem to imply the guitar/string combination just doesn't resonant those sounds well. Or there's an issue at the saddle, which seems less likely.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Without going into all of the flak Taylor gets for their v-bracing hype machine...I will say my one v-class guitar is the easiest for me to get harmonics out of at just about every fret, not just 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, etc.

Especially cool when one of the songs I play (Mad Season's "I Don't Know Anything") calls for a low E fourth fret harmonic. Super easy to pull off on electric with distortion (which is how the original song is) but now I can also easily pull it off on acoustic as well.

And yes, I can get that 4th fret harmonic out of all my guitars, but the Taylor v-class just rings out louder than all the others.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by mc1

Well, if you are playing open string/natural harmonics, then for sure you can move your picking hand around.



I wonder how open string/natural harmonics do ring on this guitar. If they ring fine, but the same harmonic played elsewhere as an artificial harmonic is dull, then perhaps it is a setup issue and the fretting string is being dampened.



If open harmonics are already weak, then that would seem to imply the guitar/string combination just doesn't resonant those sounds well. Or there's an issue at the saddle, which seems less likely.

Good point, open harmonics are strong on the Furch and it’s just artificial or fretted that seem poor.

[RodB]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Good point, open harmonics are strong on the Furch and it’s just artificial or fretted that seem poor.

I find differences between guitars, but as you are only producing a 2nd harmonic with a single node, in theory it should not demand too much of the guitar.

One difference between natural and artificial harmonics is how we normally pluck them, in that for natural harmonics we can freely move our plucking hand to get the best sound - the purest and potentially loudest harmonic is mid-way between 2 nodes. In your case this is half way between the 19th fret and bridge - quite a stretch for the i to a of the plucking hand (at least for me!)

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by RodB

I find differences between guitars, but as you are only producing a 2nd harmonic with a single node, in theory it should not demand too much of the guitar.



One difference between natural and artificial harmonics is how we normally pluck them, in that for natural harmonics we can freely move our plucking hand to get the best sound - the purest and potentially loudest harmonic is mid-way between 2 nodes. In your case this is half way between the 19th fret and bridge - quite a stretch for the i to a of the plucking hand (at least for me!)

Yes, you’re right there - they sound better with a fully extended I finger to allow more distance, but this is challenging to get to quickly as I have to in this piece!

[RodB]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Yes, you’re right there - they sound better with a fully extended I finger to allow more distance, but this is challenging to get to quickly as I have to in this piece!

I don't find these easy to get accurately in a faster piece either, and my ring finger isn't my strongest. There is also a trade off as well - as stretching too far reduces the ability to get any power into the pluck. I find in general, harmonics or not, that to get good tone higher up the fretboard is more difficult, requiring a greater power input as well as working hard at addressing the string for full tone.

Now you have us waiting for another nice piece from you...

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by RodB

I don't find these easy to get accurately in a faster piece either, and my ring finger isn't my strongest. There is also a trade off as well - as stretching too far reduces the ability to get any power into the pluck. I find in general, harmonics or not, that to get good tone higher up the fretboard is more difficult, requiring a greater power input as well as working hard at addressing the string for full tone.



Now you have us waiting for another nice piece from you...

That’s the pressure on..

It’s a challenging piece - faster than I normally play, but I love it!

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I am referring to plucking the string with my A finger while touching the string at the appropriate point with my I finger - while fretting with my left hand.

In this piece, capo is on 3rd fret and fretted note is at 7th fret so initial harmonic is just beyond the end of the fretboard at 19th - making it a challenge to be accurate.

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Good point, open harmonics are strong on the Furch and it’s just artificial or fretted that seem poor.

To make sure I am following, you are fretting a note at the 7th fret, and playing the artificial harmonic 12 frets up at the 19th (touching the string with your i finger right above the 19th fret). Thus producing an harmonic note 1 octave above the note at the 7th fret.

Which string is this, the high E?

This is the same harmonic as just the natural one at the 7th fret, uncapoed. I'll assume it rings loud and clear as you mentioned.

How does the fretted note sound? Is it ringing clear?

How are the other artificial harmonics at the same fret (7/19) but for different strings?

How are the other artificial harmonics on the same string at nearby frets (e.g. 5/17, 6/18, 8/20, 9/21)?