Thoughts on KOA as a tonewood ?

[fregly]

Originally Posted by colins

Might depend on the builder and the quality of the koa. I have guitars in koa, Aust blackwood and claro walnut, and the upcharge was much the same for all of them.

Yes that is true. I don't think Larrivee had much of an upcharge. Collings does, and a lot of sole builders do. I just looked at a builder who charges $1000.

[Dyson Guitars]

The upcharge for Koa is going to depend on how recently you bought your guitar. It is becoming one of the rarer and more expensive woods used. I see a “please inquire” upcharge for it along with Brazilian and other uber rare rosewoods on some builder’s websites.

[musicman1951]

My impression is that there is considerable variation in the sound from Koa. People play some and are left cold, and others that really sing. Not a wood I would be comfortable buying ears unheard.

I have not played a ton of Koa guitars, but one of the sweetest guitars I've played was a Martin Authentic - maybe 000-28K, with a fairly wide nut. It just sang.

[fregly]

The nicest Taylor I ever played was a Koa Engleman Spruce. How much of that was the Koa or just everything coming together on a particular guitar........

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by fregly

....How much of that was the Koa or just everything coming together on a particular guitar........

There is a lot of validity to the bold part. Perhaps the single best acoustic guitar I have ever played was a Goodall koa/spruce jumbo in Anchorage years ago. It was $6K so I wanted to think about it overnight, especially flying back to Idaho with it. It was gone when I went back the next day, so someone agreed with me. I have also played some high-dollar Taylor koa guitars that were tonally not worth one-tenth of their sticker price. Meh.....

The two koa guitars that I currently have are a 2006 GS-K (K16) which is nicely flamed koa and Sitka spruce, and a 2007 all-koa 424-LTD. I happen to think that Taylor does a better job with koa than most factory builders, but they don't hit a home run every time at bat either.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Earl49

There is a lot of validity to the bold part. Perhaps the single best acoustic guitar I have ever played was a Goodall koa/spruce jumbo in Anchorage years ago. It was $6K so I wanted to think about it overnight, especially flying back to Idaho with it. It was gone when I went back the next day, so someone agreed with me. I have also played some high-dollar Taylor koa guitars that were tonally not worth one-tenth of their sticker price. Meh.....

The two koa guitars that I currently have are a 2006 GS-K (K16) which is nicely flamed koa and Sitka spruce, and a 2007 all-koa 424-LTD. I happen to think that Taylor does a better job with koa than most factory builders, but they don't hit a home run every time at bat either.

I think this is pretty accurate. If koa is used for back and sides, it’s reasonable to believe it is only contributing perhaps 20%-25% of the tonal signature and the rest is primarily the top and the top bracing. You have more of a chance to have a “meh” experience with an all koa guitar if the wood is not old growth koa or poorly built. Jason Kostal told me good koa is starting to get as hard to get as BRW has become. Most of Taylor’s koa reserve is fairly new wood so an all koa Taylor should be played first for sure. Bob Taylor has always stated koa has to be played in and this would be very applicable to an all koa guitar. Perhaps a good application for a Tonerite eh?

[Earl49]

Age and play time are very important with koa. You cannot really judge the tone of an all-koa guitar for the first year, so buying becomes a leap of faith. If you like it well enough at first then it will quite likely mellow a bit. But if you don't care for it new, skip that one. I have never tried a Tonerite, but koa may be the "killer application".

[cliff_the_stiff]

while not an acoustic, I sure like it on my Carvin!

[ntotoro]

Not saying it's universal, but my experience has been that the less flamboyantly figured examples of koa seem to sound a bit fuller and smoother.


Nick

[bufflehead]

My first impression whenever I see a koa guitar is, "Wow. Look at the size of that ukulele!"

Hard to get past that.

[colins]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

My impression is that there is considerable variation in the sound from Koa. People play some and are left cold, and others that really sing. Not a wood I would be comfortable buying ears unheard.

I have not played a ton of Koa guitars, but one of the sweetest guitars I've played was a Martin Authentic - maybe 000-28K, with a fairly wide nut. It just sang.

Agreed. In other koa threads, posters like Wade Hampton have said they've found considerable variability in koa, from great to terrible.

I know what you mean about koa Martins. I used to own an OM 42K that was the finest Martin I've owned. And it looked good too......

[Rmccamey]

I agree that aging has a lot to do with acoustics in general and Koa specifically. [IMO, too many people buy and then sell acoustics the first year because they don't "sound good" without letting the wood really open up.]

Someone on another thread said Koa would not get any brighter over time but would develop more bass and become more full or robust. My Collins OM Sitka Koa has done just that. It has always had that expressive Collings sound but over 20 years it has developed a wonderful tonal range and just keeps getting better.

That said, I've always had a psychological quandary with the notion that a wood solid enough for back & sides (Mahogany and Koa) is also flexible enough to make a good soundboard. But that is just me. I know there are some great sounding all Hog and all Koa's out there.

Originally Posted by Earl49

Age and play time are very important with koa. You cannot really judge the tone of an all-koa guitar for the first year, so buying becomes a leap of faith. If you like it well enough at first then it will quite likely mellow a bit. But if you don't care for it new, skip that one. I have never tried a Tonerite, but koa may be the "killer application".

[generalliamsayn]

Originally Posted by Rmccamey

Someone on another thread said Koa would not get any brighter over time but would develop more bass and become more full or robust. My Collins OM Sitka Koa has done just that. It has always had that expressive Collings sound but over 20 years it has developed a wonderful tonal range and just keeps getting better.

Same with my Collings 0002HK (also sitka) - it developed a HUGE warm, full tone over the 18 years I owned it, but still with that bit of ‘cut’ similar to what maple offers, which is why it became my preferred live performance guitar when in combos.

[iim7V7IM7]

In ANY tonewood discussion it will always be BUILDER, TOP SET and specific BACK & SIDE SET influenced. There is tremendous heterogeneity in sound due to all of these factors. These are my impressions of my specific koa guitar.



I have a 12-fret, 00 sized, Swiss Spruce/Koa guitar made by luthier Michael Bashkin. I would describe it as having some of the clear, mid forward timbre of mahoganies with a bit more of the high end sparkle and complexity that we associate with rosewoods. It is a very open sounding instrument for a small guitar. It is only about 2-years old so it is a young guitar still and the euphonic bass warmth is continuing to develop.

On another note, Koa is about the most stable hardwood used in guitar making (even more stable than mahogany!).

[Slothead56]

Originally Posted by colins

Agreed. In other koa threads, posters like Wade Hampton have said they've found considerable variability in koa, from great to terrible.

I know what you mean about koa Martins. I used to own an OM 42K that was the finest Martin I've owned. And it looked good too......

I was just going to post about my Martin OM-42k when I saw this.

Mine is likely from the same production year and it is a phenomenal all around guitar. I bought it for its beauty. I keep it for its sound.