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Old 03-03-2018, 09:32 AM
Rsnoke Rsnoke is offline
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Default Advice on Preamp pedals

I have a Seagull Mini Jumbo with a KandK pure mini pu in it. I usually play at home because I'm not that good. I have recently been talked into practicing with our Worship team at church. This is a huge step for me! Anyway, I get sound through the system but I don't get sound through my earbuds. I was told I probably need an preamp to give it a little more boost. I was wondering that if this is the case, what would be a good inexpensive preamp pedal I could get to solve the problem? I seen a Bheringer AD121 for $30 and wondered if anyone had experience with this. I know you get what you pay for. My budget would be for around $100.
Thank you for your expertise!
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:54 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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https://m.ebay.com/itm/K-K-Sound-Pur...AAAOSwTO9aA0ul

designed for your pickup a dollar under your budget..
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:36 AM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Originally Posted by Rsnoke View Post
I have a Seagull Mini Jumbo with a KandK pure mini pu in it. I usually play at home because I'm not that good. I have recently been talked into practicing with our Worship team at church. This is a huge step for me! Anyway, I get sound through the system but I don't get sound through my earbuds. I was told I probably need an preamp to give it a little more boost. I was wondering that if this is the case, what would be a good inexpensive preamp pedal I could get to solve the problem? I seen a Bheringer AD121 for $30 and wondered if anyone had experience with this. I know you get what you pay for. My budget would be for around $100.
Thank you for your expertise!
I'm not sure I understand the nature of the problem. If the pickup is sending a signal to the system (and it should be), that signal should be just as available to the main, front of house output as it is to the earbud monitors. Whatever is happening with the monitoring system won't be changed by you using a preamp. Can you let us know more about how the system is set up?

Louis
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:18 AM
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Ed-in-Ohio Ed-in-Ohio is offline
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Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
I'm not sure I understand the nature of the problem. If the pickup is sending a signal to the system (and it should be), that signal should be just as available to the main, front of house output as it is to the earbud monitors. Whatever is happening with the monitoring system won't be changed by you using a preamp. Can you let us know more about how the system is set up?

Louis
^ - This - Louis is right. Also, the K&K is a very hot passive pickup (actually hotter than some active pickups). There is no way a K&K would need a "a little more boost".
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:48 AM
Rsnoke Rsnoke is offline
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I wish I could be of help in what the set up is. I honestly don't know as this is my 2nd time practicing. It's still pretty foreign to me. Sorry, I know this doesn't help the thread. And you're right, it could be something with our sound peeps. I call them peeps because we're a small church and the sound techs are amateurs who know the basics.

If I got a pre-amp, at least I would have volume control and possibly be able to mute it myself.
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsnoke View Post
I have a Seagull Mini Jumbo with a KandK pure mini pu in it. I usually play at home because I'm not that good. I have recently been talked into practicing with our Worship team at church. This is a huge step for me! Anyway, I get sound through the system but I don't get sound through my earbuds. I was told I probably need an preamp to give it a little more boost. I was wondering that if this is the case, what would be a good inexpensive preamp pedal I could get to solve the problem? I seen a Bheringer AD121 for $30 and wondered if anyone had experience with this. I know you get what you pay for. My budget would be for around $100.
Thank you for your expertise!
Hi Rsnoke

I own/use 4 personal K&K rigs, and run PA sound for musicians frequently who show up with K&K and no preamp.

The K&K is the hottest pickup on the market…and raw, the signal is often hotter than the signal after going through a preamp. I suspect either you are plugging your earbuds into the wrong place, or the techs have not fed your signal back to the monitors properly.

Please tell us where you are pulling your earbud signal from (the one you don't hear)?

As for preamp bang-for-the-buck the Behringer ADI21 is a great preamp. The housing is plastic, but it is durable. I've had one which I've used with people who show up without a preamp for gigs, and it's held up since 2014.

A far better choice is the $150 Fishman Platinum STAGE model. It has a thick aluminum frame, and is built to interface a passive guitar (or bass) signal with PA systems, amps, etc. It is the hidden gem of the acoustic guitar pre-amp market. It also fits in my backpack or the pick drawer of my Calton cases.

It can be phantom powered from the board, or battery driven, and has all the bells and whistles necessary for decent sound. This has replaced the Baggs ParaDI preamps in my travel kits.

Most preamps in the $100-n-under category will not have a mute button. My $350+ preamps do. You will not miss it if you adapt. Guitars don't make noise by themselves, and sound techs can learn to momentarily mute you if you need to tweak/tune.

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Old 03-03-2018, 01:17 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsnoke View Post
I wish I could be of help in what the set up is. I honestly don't know as this is my 2nd time practicing. It's still pretty foreign to me. Sorry, I know this doesn't help the thread. And you're right, it could be something with our sound peeps. I call them peeps because we're a small church and the sound techs are amateurs who know the basics.

If I got a pre-amp, at least I would have volume control and possibly be able to mute it myself.
There's certainly nothing wrong with putting your K&K through a preamp, but you should investigate how things are set up before you go ahead and invest in one. At the very least, that might help you figure out what kind of unit to buy if in fact you decide it will be of some use.

The usual way to connect a guitar with a pick up like yours to a PA system is to run it through a DI box, which allows you to use a short instrument cable to the box and then an XLR cable of whatever length is necessary to get to one of the mic inputs on the mixer. But, as others have noted, the K&K has a strong enough signal to go directly into an instrument/line input on a mixer as long as the cable isn't too long. Many preamps also include a DI output for going into a mic input, and they also often include other features that may or may not be useful to you.

In any case, have another conversation with the sound peeps to see what's going on. It will help you learn more about how things like this work and why there might be an issue with the monitor signal. If there's no one on hand who can figure it out, you can gather some information about the equipment being used and the settings along the signal chain, and maybe one of us will be able to help you trouble-shoot it.

Louis
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  #8  
Old 03-03-2018, 01:27 PM
Rsnoke Rsnoke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Rsnoke

I own/use 4 personal K&K rigs, and run PA sound for musicians frequently who show up with K&K and no preamp.

The K&K is the hottest pickup on the market…and raw, the signal is often hotter than the signal after going through a preamp. I suspect either you are plugging your earbuds into the wrong place, or the techs have not fed your signal back to the monitors properly.

Please tell us where you are pulling your earbud signal from (the one you don't hear)?

As for preamp bang-for-the-buck the Behringer ADI21 is a great preamp. The housing is plastic, but it is durable. I've had one which I've used with people who show up without a preamp for gigs, and it's held up since 2014.

A far better choice is the $150 Fishman Platinum STAGE model. It has a thick aluminum frame, and is built to interface a passive guitar (or bass) signal with PA systems, amps, etc. It is the hidden gem of the acoustic guitar pre-amp market. It also fits in my backpack or the pick drawer of my Calton cases.

It can be phantom powered from the board, or battery driven, and has all the bells and whistles necessary for decent sound. This has replaced the Baggs ParaDI preamps in my travel kits.

Most preamps in the $100-n-under category will not have a mute button. My $350+ preamps do. You will not miss it if you adapt. Guitars don't make noise by themselves, and sound techs can learn to momentarily mute you if you need to tweak/tune.

Thank you! Our techs may be the issue. But I guess my question would be, why can everyone else hear themselves and I can hear everyone else through the in ear monitor? I have practiced two weeks in row them with different sound techs each time. I know too that they are amateurs and have a lot to learn as well as myself. I appreciate your help. Is there a benefit to not getting a pre-amp besides saving some $$$. I was looking at the Behringer but had some doubts because of the price.
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:42 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsnoke View Post
Thank you! Our techs may be the issue. But I guess my question would be, why can everyone else hear themselves and I can hear everyone else through the in ear monitor? I have practiced two weeks in row them with different sound techs each time. I know too that they are amateurs and have a lot to learn as well as myself. I appreciate your help. Is there a benefit to not getting a pre-amp besides saving some $$$. I was looking at the Behringer but had some doubts because of the price.
The key question here is, what about the main mix? If your guitar is audible to the congregation, but not in the monitor mix, it's a problem with the way the techs are routing the signals. The main faders should control the main mix, and there should be "aux" send controls that allow them to send a separate mix (or more than one) to the monitor system. If the guitar is not audible in either mix, it may be because of how you are plugged in to the mixer or because of how they have the input gain set on your channel. We need to know how all of that sorts out before we can say whether or not a preamp/DI would make any difference.

Louis
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:43 PM
Rsnoke Rsnoke is offline
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Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
There's certainly nothing wrong with putting your K&K through a preamp, but you should investigate how things are set up before you go ahead and invest in one. At the very least, that might help you figure out what kind of unit to buy if in fact you decide it will be of some use.

The usual way to connect a guitar with a pick up like yours to a PA system is to run it through a DI box, which allows you to use a short instrument cable to the box and then an XLR cable of whatever length is necessary to get to one of the mic inputs on the mixer. But, as others have noted, the K&K has a strong enough signal to go directly into an instrument/line input on a mixer as long as the cable isn't too long. Many preamps also include a DI output for going into a mic input, and they also often include other features that may or may not be useful to you.

In any case, have another conversation with the sound peeps to see what's going on. It will help you learn more about how things like this work and why there might be an issue with the monitor signal. If there's no one on hand who can figure it out, you can gather some information about the equipment being used and the settings along the signal chain, and maybe one of us will be able to help you trouble-shoot it.

Louis
Thank you so much for the feedback. I will definitely be learning how it is set up and etc. I'm not savvy by no means and want to learn. I know there is a box that a cable is plugged into and then output gets plugged into my guitar. I will find out how things are set up because I know I sound like a fool. It's good to know that I'm not hearing myself through in ear monitors is because I don't have a pre-amp.
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Old 03-03-2018, 02:24 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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First of all, every piezo pickup on the planet, of which the K&K is one, needs to be run into a devise with a 1 meg input impedance. The average mixing board is 800 ohm. Why? without getting into electrical theory, the piezo will be smoother with no annoying harshness, in other words sound better. This can be a simple DI box or a pre amp. Not being a fan of cheap consumer electronics I can't recommend any.

A good old tried and true Baggs PARA DI could be had used under $150.

I've seen more people at open mics sound horrible with $3000 guitars plugged into an 800 ohm channel board input, and many running those open mics not knowing or caring either. Maybe horrible is too harsh, but high end edgyness is greatly mitigated with a decent devise with the correct impedance.

I imagine there are a lot of volunteers in churches who don't know this basic fact.
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Old 03-03-2018, 04:10 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Originally Posted by Rsnoke View Post
Thank you so much for the feedback. I will definitely be learning how it is set up and etc. I'm not savvy by no means and want to learn. I know there is a box that a cable is plugged into and then output gets plugged into my guitar. I will find out how things are set up because I know I sound like a fool. It's good to know that I'm not hearing myself through in ear monitors is because I don't have a pre-amp.
That box is probably either a DI box or a stage snake box (which is like an extension of the mixer's inputs). Let us know what you find out! It all seems very complicated at first, but a lot of it sorts out pretty easily once you get a few basic concepts down.

Louis
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Old 03-03-2018, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsnoke View Post
Thank you! Our techs may be the issue. But I guess my question would be, why can everyone else hear themselves and I can hear everyone else through the in ear monitor? I have practiced two weeks in row them with different sound techs each time. I know too that they are amateurs and have a lot to learn as well as myself. I appreciate your help. Is there a benefit to not getting a pre-amp besides saving some $$$. I was looking at the Behringer but had some doubts because of the price.
Hi R

Of course you can improve the tone with a preamp. But your guitar can be made to sound good with just the K&K, and if they have the guitar in the house mix, then it's not an impedance issue. Someone just needs to be sure your signal is turned up in the monitor mix. You still have not told us what you plug your ear-buds into to hear the monitor mix.

I suspect the reason you hear everyone else and not yourself is your guitar has not been put into the monitor circuit.

Are you using a dedicated in-ear monitor station/unit? We use individual stations for each musicians who then mix their own monitor-mix. Since they added you in the main speakers, then they need to adjust/add your instrument volume in the monitor mix as well. If it's a typical PA board then the adjustment for the monitors is a separate volume control from the one which adjusts volume in the house/room.


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Last edited by ljguitar; 03-03-2018 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 03-03-2018, 04:47 PM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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if your plugging your guitar directly into
a snake than your signal is lost in the long
run thru the snake into a board. A di box will
take the high impedance 1mgohm kk and
convert it to a low imp mic like signal,
this is what mixing boards are designed to take.
that 800 ohms you mentioned above. a guitar
cord should not be much longer than 10 ft or so.
Are you plugging right into a snake? a big box
on the floor that everyone else is plugged into.
if you are than your guitar cord is now 200 ft long
or how ever long the snake is. you won't have much
if any signal when it reaches the board. Talk to the other
guitar players in the group to see what they use.
welcome to agf.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:08 AM
Rsnoke Rsnoke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
The key question here is, what about the main mix? If your guitar is audible to the congregation, but not in the monitor mix, it's a problem with the way the techs are routing the signals. The main faders should control the main mix, and there should be "aux" send controls that allow them to send a separate mix (or more than one) to the monitor system. If the guitar is not audible in either mix, it may be because of how you are plugged in to the mixer or because of how they have the input gain set on your channel. We need to know how all of that sorts out before we can say whether or not a preamp/DI would make any difference.

Louis
The first week I practiced with team I shared a monitor with another guitar player using a splitter. He could hear his guitar as well as I but I couldn't hear mine. I will definitely be exploring possible causes/solutions as I learn how things are set up. Dumb question. I know sound hole covers are to help prevent feedback. I'm wondering if I have mine in my guitar if it would help to hear my guitar through the in ear monitor.
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