NGD-ish: Not Bad for "Plywood"

Brent Hutto · #1 10-13-2021, 07:41 AM

I went shopping for an older, very inexpensive guitar (definitely under $100) on which to learn some basic guitar-tech skills. Fitting a nut or saddle, cleaning up rough fret ends, minor cosmetic repairs, that kind of thing. I'm so clumsy at that kind of thing I don't trust myself to do anything much beyond changing strings right now on my good guitar.

But as one does in these situations, I got sidetracked by something at double my budget. The guitar shop had Takamine dreadnought (90's era made-in-Taiwan G330) that was actually quite fun to play and sounded pretty good even with old strings on it. It has a lot of "issues" so I won't feel bad about experimenting on it as a learning project. Cracks in the fretboard, couple chunks missing out of the plastic bindings, lots of haze under the finish.

So I brought it home, lemon oiled the fretboard, put new strings on, cleaned it up and bit and checked the setup. The action is high but playable, about 0.120" under the low-E and 0.085" under the high-E with minimal neck relief. Plenty of saddle left so my first project can be to sand down the saddle and know 10-15 thousandths off the bass side action. Surprisingly, the nut slots are 100% perfect height with a great feel up at the first fret and the strings barely clearing the 1st fret when I press down at the 3rd.

Additional projects will be filling in the missing chunks of binding on the lower bout and on the edge of the fretboard near the 7th fret. Also lots of brutally sharp fret ends that have sprouted out as the fretboard dried out (and cracked). Nothing much I can do for the finish haze or the cracks in the actual rosewood fingerboard.

It's a nice, fairly loud sounding guitar. I think this G330 probably sounds about as good as a laminated spruce top dreadnought is going to sound. If I did not have a better guitar to compare it to I'd probably think it sounds just fine. The main drawback is a slightly boxy, compressed sound with a bit of midrange emphasis.

Here's a couple of sound samples, apologies in advance for the fumbles and stumbles in my playing. I would blame it on being recorded before my second cup of coffee this morning but in truth I just play bad most of the time anyway.

Basic mono recordings, just using the built-in camera app in my iPad. First clip is my John Walker Lolo Creek (L-00 style) and the second in the Takamine dred.

https://brenthutto.com/wp-content/up...germanLolo.mp3

https://brenthutto.com/wp-content/up...germanG330.mp3

donlyn · #2 10-13-2021, 10:31 AM

". . . Not Bad for "Plywood"

Hello Brent,

Here are two stories covering my two 'plywood' guitars.

The first is my '06 Alvarez AJ60S (natural) Jumbo. I got this new for a practice guitar in 2006, mostly because the only other acoustic I had at the time was an '85 Gibson J-200 Jumbo. Note 'practice' and not 'beater'. Turns out it's a slightly smaller body, about 16+3/8" across the lower bout in contrast to a true Jumbo width of 17" (Gibson J-200). Turned out to be a pretty nice inexpensive guitar that plays and sounds way above it's cost. Good enough to use playing out (I did, so I know). Only drawbacks for some might be the neck width of 1+11/16" (I have three J-200s, so I'm used to it) and a slight resonant loss of bass, but only in comparison to some large solid wood body guitars (I have a few). Great instrument all things considered. And while it has no truss rod, I have had no problems with it for 15 years now. It proudly wears Elixir PB Lights and has for years.

My other laminate is a 1994 Epiphone EJ-200 blonde Jumbo. This one was a wreck when I saw it but for some reason I played it and it had a good sound. So I bought it dirt cheap and worked it and had a set-up done. Overall, new nut and saddle were the big changes along with a bit of fretwork. Body was in decent shape, with few easily detectable dings, dents, bumps, and wounds except for a well worn silk-screened pickguard (the typical large one common to J-200s). Then I bought an Epiphone Jumbo case which listed for about what I had monetarily already put into the guitar. It also has the thinnish nut width, and a shallow 'V' neck becoming a 'C' as it moves toward the body. And being a J-200, even the laminate body has a distinctly slow decay and some great overtones. I've owned this for over 5 years, and string it with Elixir PB HD Lights (.013 - .053). Previously strung it with Mediums, but HD Light gauge works best for J-200s and my Grand Orchesrtra, all of which used to have Mediums too. I fingerpick everything using my nails as picks, which works well with this current set-up.

Apropos to both guitars, is that they do not change their sound as much as big solid body guitars can do in times of high humidity. And there are a number of those humid periods (and getting worse with global warming) here in eastern Massachusetts. So when the humidity stays days into weeks (and even months a couple of years ago), I turn to my laminates for practice and play. In short I am glad to have them. While having mostly run out of GAS, I do keep my eyes open, and might add a laminate body 12 string at some point. Who knows? Not I.

Don
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Robin, Wales · #3 10-13-2021, 02:37 PM

I love plywood guitars. I love the dry, punchy, honest tone that many plywood b/s guitars have. And using plywood b/s is just such a pragmatic way to build.

The vintage guitar that would be on my lottery win wish list is a 1944 Gibson LG-2 with maple plywood b/s. I'd take a solid hog b/s one if it came my way but the maple plywood version has my heart (I just don't have the wallet!).

Brent Hutto · #4 10-13-2021, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donlyn

". . . Not Bad for "Plywood"

Only drawbacks for some might be the neck width of 1+11/16" (I have three J-200s, so I'm used to it) and a slight resonant loss of bass, but only in comparison to some large solid wood body guitars (I have a few). Great instrument all things considered.

I do struggle to play cleanly with the 1-11/16" nut. The same store had a couple older "lawsuit" Takamines with the 1-5/8" which was amazingly small. I played about five chords on one of them and stuck it back on the wall. Couldn't learn to play one that narrow in a million years.

Quote:

Then I bought an Epiphone Jumbo case which listed for about what I had monetarily already put into the guitar.

Apropos to both guitars, is that they do not change their sound as much as big solid body guitars can do in times of high humidity. And there are a number of those humid periods (and getting worse with global warming) here in eastern Massachusetts. So when the humidity stays days into weeks (and even months a couple of years ago), I turn to my laminates for practice and play. In short I am glad to have them.

No case with my G330 and the cheapest one the store had in stock cost half of what the guitar cost. So I guess if I take it out of the house it'll be in an old gig bag I have.

But that segues nicely into the point about humidity. The week before I bought a (laminated) little Hohner 7/8 size guitar which seems just about unaffected by swings from, say, around 45% to nearly 70% humidity over a period of a couple days. I don't know if the larger laminated dred will be the same but I hope so. Unlike the little "parlor" Hohner the dreagnought sounds good enough to just make it my normal guitar to take anywhere I want to play away from home.

Unless of course my Frakenstein guitar-tech learning projects do something irreversible to it. But really, I don't play to do anything with real structural implications. Most tricky bit would probably be knocking the (glued on) nut loose from the top edge of the fretboard.

I love my John Walker L-00 style guitar but it is sensitive to *everything*. Different pick? Totally different sound. Humidity goes up or down 10% overnight? Totally different sound. Come home from work in a bad mood? Totally different sound.

The "plywood" ones are little more chilled out and don't seem to be bothered by much.

Brent Hutto · #5 10-13-2021, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I love plywood guitars. I love the dry, punchy, honest tone that many plywood b/s guitars have. And using plywood b/s is just such a pragmatic way to build.

The vintage guitar that would be on my lottery win wish list is a 1944 Gibson LG-2 with maple plywood b/s. I'd take a solid hog b/s one if it came my way but the maple plywood version has my heart (I just don't have the wallet!).

I think one of my favorite guitar players Russ Barenberg has a big Gibson with the laminated B&S from that same vintage. Sweet, sweet tone.

zombywoof · #6 10-13-2021, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

The vintage guitar that would be on my lottery win wish list is a 1944 Gibson LG-2 with maple plywood b/s. I'd take a solid hog b/s one if it came my way but the maple plywood version has my heart (I just don't have the wallet!).

I played a '44 maple body LG2 years back at a small guitar show I went to. It would be sitting here right now if the seller had been able to take any kind of plastic or if it had not been late on a Sunday afternoon when the banks were closed and I did not have enough time to run home and return. But as what tends to happen with me it all worked out for the better. Had I purchased the LG2 I would not have been able to snag the 1932 12 fret L1 I stumbled upon a bit later which has a sound you can get lost in.

Brent Hutto · #7 10-18-2021, 04:00 PM

Things are getting a bit weird between me and my "plywood" Takamine. While I'm not in love with its tone (which is quite compressed and rolled-off) I find myself wanting to play it as much or more than my good guitar.

I realize now how I ended up spending a couple hundred bucks on this as an impulse purchase when I was really in the store looking for a $50-$75 beater to potentially sacrifice while learning some shade-tree luthier skills. It's because the neck and fingerboard on this thing might as well have been custom fitted to my left hand. It is just sooooo easy to play.

The part that's hard to figure is why I apparently had a severe misunderstanding of my ideal dimensions for a guitar. Compared to what I've always "known" I needed:

The string spacing is far too narrow at the nut, 1.416" (36.0mm) versus 1.480" (37.6mm) on my Lolo Creek which I always thought was a tiny bit on the narrow side.

The string spacing down (or lack thereof) at the saddle is absolutely ridiculous, center-to-center 1.962" (50.00mm) versus 2.192" (55.6mm) on the Walker guitar. Yes, that's right, less than 2"!

The neck is pretty substantial but I think it's the first "baseball bat" sized neck I've ever played without a hint of V shape. I hate V-necks and my good guitar has a C shape that's certainly not thin like a Taylor but a nowhere near as thick as this old Takamine. If I'm measuring correctly the depth at the 1st fret is 0.880" and at the 9th fret 1.000" to the top of the fingerboard. My Lolo's neck is 0.810" and 0.900" by comparison (about 1/64" less thick).

So when I sit down to play I tend to pick up the Takamine, play for a while then get tired of its limited sound palette. Then grab the good guitar and work on getting a good tone.

Sugar Bear · #8 10-18-2021, 05:06 PM

Go get Don Teeter's books, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2, you can get them on Amazon, and go crazy on that thing.

Don's books are published by University of Oklahoma Press, and will teach you how to do a lot of things without buying all the "special tools" offered by the mainstream luthier supply places.

If you don't like the tone, put a new solid top on it with good bracing, a high quality bridge plate, etcetera.

The sky's the limit! Work it over good, you'll learn a lot and gain confidence.