First look at the Bourgeois/Eastman collaboration guitars

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Not sure I follow you, Duff. Then why has Dana plowed much of the collaboration money into a significant expansion of the Lewiston plant and hired a bunch of new staff in preparation for ramping up production of Lewiston-made highend Bourgeois guitars from the current 400 a year to 1,200 within the next 2-3 years? Like they say - follow the money. And the money doesn’t seem to be leading down a path that moves everything to China any time soon.

Well you make a very good point Rev, but I just don't see the end game for Eastman going the way you are talking about. Eastman now owns the rights to the Bourgeois name as a company and overall product and I don't see the economics for them in ramping up production on a very boutique brand name at the price point that Bourgeois is placed in the market. There is just so much competition there, but maybe they think Dana's good name and reputation in the field will allow them to expand sales to match expanded production.

I have to wonder though...because as we Baby Boomers age and die out of the marketplace, the market IS going to shrink...especially as long as Rap, Hip Hop, EDM, and Party Pop is the young peoples overall choice for "Top O The Charts". So as we boomers go out, who is going to make up the volume loss for a small company with a very VERY boutique name recognition and placement in the marketplace. Bourgeois is a fine guitar, but they ain't Martin, or Gibson, or even Taylor...brand name power wise...in the main MIR...music instrument retail...market, and it's those iconic names that are going to have the most staying power due to their iconic status and huge market presence.

Certainly though...cost wise...Eastman could build the Bourgeois entire line over in China for way WAY less cost, even counting shipping and import costs, and they could compete very very strongly at some certain level in the marketplace, trading on the Bourgeois name and their definite high quality production capabilities in China, and lower cost to market. Trying to do that with USA production costs seems like a real tough row to hoe...especially in a shrinking market. So ultimately moving all production for Bourgeois to China and competing on lower cost/higher quality guitars strikes me as the logical reason for Eastman to buy the Bourgeois name and product line.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. But I hope you are right for the sake of the history of the brand name and Dana's reputation and especially for the job security of all the luthiers/craftsman at Bourgeois USA!


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Glob]

I remember seeing a youtube video from Dana where he was casually pointing to a stack of braced top ready to be shipped to Eastman. Maybe the model is a little more black and white than it's all me here or it's all made there.

I could see a range of lower priced bourgeois voiced in the US and assembled in China for example. They would be better than the current crop of Eastman (and these are good) but the manufacture would be completed in China. Back and side made in China with woods sourced by Eastman, top in US with wood sourced by Dana. And maybe the necks made in US and adjusted / fitted in China or vice versa.

And limiting the finishes to something simple.

I don't know. I'm curious to see what that would look like. They are taking their time, which is could be a good sign...

[Zissou Intern]

I just wonder how many US buyers would choose a new Bourgeois/Eastman dread or OM over a used D18GE, CS D18 Sinker, or HD28V, OM28V all at the same price point?

[BoneDigger]

Originally Posted by Zissou Intern

I just wonder how many US buyers would choose a new Bourgeois/Eastman dread or OM over a used D18GE, CS D18 Sinker, or HD28V, OM28V all at the same price point?

To me, it would come down to sound and how it feels to me. I really don't put much emphasis on origin these days.

[Zissou Intern]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

To me, it would come down to sound and how it feels to me. I really don't put much emphasis on origin these days.

Neither do I. (We have two Eastmen in the house, and one has been here for 10 years.) But I think most people see Martin, Gibson, Taylor, and Guild as brands to strive for. Whereas many US guitarists have never even heard of Eastman or Bourgeois.

[hairpuller]

Me thinks these might have a larger audience in the far east having Bourgeois connected to Eastman, than in the west having Eastman connected with Bourgeois.

scott
BA in marketing

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by Zissou Intern

I just wonder how many US buyers would choose a new Bourgeois/Eastman dread or OM over a used D18GE, CS D18 Sinker, or HD28V, OM28V all at the same price point?

Or a used Bourgeois at the same price point.



duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by hairpuller

Me thinks these might have a larger audience in the far east having Bourgeois connected to Eastman, than in the west having Eastman connected with Bourgeois.

scott
BA in marketing

Yes indeed Scott...a very important point, and very likely I think.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[jklotz]

If you look at the Eastman business model, one thing that helps them, IMHO, is they are limiting product and not flooding the market like a lot of Asian makers do. That allows them to keep the prices on the street close to where they want them to be. I doubt that will change with Bourstman

[jaymarsch]

I imagine that the 1 and 23/32” nut width will be met with the same variety of responses as any other nut width spec. Some will love it, some will hate it, and some won’t care at all.
I wonder if they thought that they were striking a happy medium and offering a nut width not available anywhere else? It will be interesting to hear and feel these new guitars in any case.
Best,
Jayne

[BoneDigger]

Perhaps a Bourgeois sounds like a Bourgeois and an Eastman sounds like an Eastman, and these guitars will have their own sound, which may be somewhere in between? If so, I would certainly buy one IF that sound is something I want/need. The one Bourgeois I played did not overly excited me for it's cost. This may become a niche for those who like a certain sound that they produce?

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I imagine that the 1 and 23/32” nut width will be met with the same variety of responses as any other nut width spec. Some will love it, some will hate it, and some won’t care at all.
I wonder if they thought that they were striking a happy medium and offering a nut width not available anywhere else? It will be interesting to hear and feel these new guitars in any case.
Best,
Jayne

I had that nut width on my Banjo Killer. It was very comfortable and easy to play.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I imagine that the 1 and 23/32” nut width will be met with the same variety of responses as any other nut width spec. Some will love it, some will hate it, and some won’t care at all.
I wonder if they thought that they were striking a happy medium and offering a nut width not available anywhere else? It will be interesting to hear and feel these new guitars in any case.
Best,
Jayne

Pretty typical nut width on Bourgeois models. I’ve had it on the two Bourgeois dreads I’ve owned. Very comfortable. All my other guitars have been 1 3/4” (which I prefer). I hardly notice any difference when I go back-and-forth between them.

[Pura Vida]

Re: duff's long-term business model comments

Eastman already set precedent when they acquired W. S. Haynes several years ago. Haynes makes high end flutes ($10k level), and Eastman Strings makes all sorts of orchestral instruments. Both businesses continue to operate like they did before, so if we take the Touchstone collaboration out of the equation, it's safe to think the same will happen with Eastman guitars and Bourgeois.

Besides, Eastman is so backlogged on their guitar lines, I'm surprised they're getting any Touchstone out this year. I realize that may change in a couple of years, assuming we are post-pandemic and they've caught up on their supply-demand balance.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

Re: duff's long-term business model comments

Eastman already set precedent when they acquired W. S. Haynes several years ago. Haynes makes high end flutes ($10k level), and Eastman Strings makes all sorts of orchestral instruments. Both businesses continue to operate like they did before, so if we take the Touchstone collaboration out of the equation, it's safe to think the same will happen with Eastman guitars and Bourgeois.

Besides, Eastman is so backlogged on their guitar lines, I'm surprised they're getting any Touchstone out this year. I realize that may change in a couple of years, assuming we are post-pandemic and they've caught up on their supply-demand balance.

Thanks for that info. Good to know there’s a precedent.