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Old 02-25-2019, 09:11 PM
BongoSTL BongoSTL is offline
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Default CAGED: Or, What Else Should I Have Learned Years Ago??!?!

So I'm self-taught, I've been playing for 24 years or so...and I play a lot. I'm a rabbi and I use my guitar multiple times a week for work, and have for years and years.

And I just randomly read about CAGED, which led to some googling, which has totally changed my guitar playing in about 2 days.

Are there other stupid-helpful things that I would have learned forever ago if I'd taken lessons????

I know my pentatonic scales up and down the neck (though I'm 90% a singer/songwriter type rhythm player), I'm a pretty good travis picker, and now there's CAGED.

So, hive-mind: what else am I missing??????
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:39 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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I think you have been doing pretty much the right thing all along about how to learn to play the guitar. Learn to play songs you like and keep learning new ones every week. The more music you learn, the more information you will absorb.

There is nothing magic about the CAGED system. Somebody just gave it a name. If you already knew that as you play a D chord configuration moving up the neck that the chords became Eb, E, F, F#, etc, if you already knew that if you play an A configuration and then move up the neck playing Bb, B, C, etc, if you already knew that if you play an E configuration and then barre up the neck with F, F#, G, F#, A, etc, then you already knew the CAGED system.

If you have the time and if you have a desire to learn a certain kind of music, let's say acoustic country blues, then it could be very helpful to buy a DVD course on how to play country blues and work through the lessons. Or maybe you want to learn what can be done with DADGAD tuning. There are great courses out there. DVD instruction, at least for me, has been extremely effective because I already know how to play a lot of stuff.

My guess is that you know way more than you give yourself credit for.

Best of luck to you in your playing and in your vocation.

- Glenn
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:45 PM
teasypee teasypee is offline
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Default well there are alternate tunings...

I think that is another "concept" that seems complicated but really is simple and adds a new dimension to your playing.

Try DADGAD and see if you find some more magic!

Have fun,,,
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:40 AM
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KenL KenL is offline
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Why is it called "CAGED"? Any significance to that?
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:54 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post
Why is it called "CAGED"? Any significance to that?
It's the order the major shapes run in up the neck. E.g., you get C major chords (sound) from a C shape in open position, A shape on fret 3, G shape on fret 5, E shape on fret 8, and D shape on fret 10. Then a C shape again on fret 12.
So it's a cycle. Works for all 12 major chords, you just start at a different place in the cycle. (An F chord starts with an E shape on fret 1; D shape on fret 3; C shape fret 5; etc.)

For some of us, this is just the way we taught ourselves the fretboard before we ever knew it was "system". Once you start exploring above 5th fret (or using a capo), it's pretty obvious the same chord shapes keep appearing.
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Old 02-26-2019, 05:16 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I'd say that the thing that was a revelation for me was "Harmonising the scale".
It was the end of trying to work out chord progressions.

It was very confusing to me initially so I worked it out myself using a series of Excel spreadsheets, then , bang - suddenly, there it all was. so logical !
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Old 02-26-2019, 05:20 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Harmonising scales

edit, I tried to attach my xls spreadsheet but it doen't seem to work.
Dunno how to share it.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:37 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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Just describe what you mean by "harmonizing the scales". I can't visualize it, but if you describe it I might catch on.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:43 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC5C View Post
Just describe what you mean by "harmonizing the scales". I can't visualize it, but if you describe it I might catch on.
In the past, I have written out the explanation here of stacking thirds and the chords that are derived for that. Instead, here is a web site page that explains it rather well:

http://guitarendeavor.com/harmonizin...-scale-guitar/

I am sure there are many other pages. This is the first one I found on a google search, and it has the necessary information complete with illustrations, but is not too long-winded. As the saying goes "google is your friend...".

Tony
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:34 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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Ah!. I've been doing that for decades. I just never called it "harmonizing a scale". In fact, it was almost the very first thing I learned when I started taking jazz lessons.

Brian
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:37 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC5C View Post
Just describe what you mean by "harmonizing the scales". I can't visualize it, but if you describe it I might catch on.
This should help visualise it:
Code:
 Half-steps: |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | 
Major scale: C     D     E  F     G     A     B  C     D     E  F 
CHORDS:
  I = C      C  .  .  .  E  .  .  G
 ii = Dm           D  .  .  F  .  .  .  A
iii = Em                 E  .  .  G  .  .  .  B
 IV = F                     F  .  .  .  A  .  .  C
  V = G                           G  .  .  .  B  .  .  D
 vi = Am                                A  .  .  C  .  .  .  E
vii = Bdim                                    B  .  .  D  .  .  F
.
 Half-steps: |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
Major scale: C     D     E  F     G     A     B  C     D     E  F     G     A
CHORDS:
  I = Cmaj7  C  .  .  .  E  .  .  G  .  .  .  B
 ii = Dm7          D  .  .  F  .  .  .  A  .  .  C
iii = Em7                E  .  .  G  .  .  .  B  .  .  D
 IV = Fmaj7                 F  .  .  .  A  .  .  C  .  .  .  E
  V = G7                          G  .  .  .  B  .  .  D  .  .  F
 vi = Am7                               A  .  .  C  .  .  .  E  .  .  G
vii = Bm7b5                                   B  .  .  D  .  .  F  .  .  .  A
Those are all the triads and 7th chords in C major.
You get different chord types according to the distances between root and 3rd, root and 5th, and root and 7th.

Major chords = major 3rd (4 half-steps), perfect 5th (7 half-steps)
Minor chords = minor 3rd (3 half-steps), perfect 5th
Diminished chord = minor 3rd, diminished 5th (6 half-steps)

Maj7 chord = major triad, major 7th (11 half-steps)
7 = major triad, minor 7th (10 half-steps) - known as "dominant 7th" because it's built on the dominant (V) degree of the scale.
m7 = minor triad, minor 7th
m7b5 (half-diminished*) = dim triad, minor 7th

Notice the chord names (mostly) come from their most significant intervals (in comparison with chords which share their other intervals).
* The "full diminished" chord (dim7) - not shown - comes from harmonic minor and is a dim triad with a diminished 7th interval. (B-D-F-Ab, from C harmonic minor)
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:45 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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To the OP, CAGED is one quite popular way to assist in learning the fret-board. There are dozens of similar methods, all of which feature one way or other of putting dots on a fretboard that reflect a major scale pattern. I participated in a study that was the basis of a friend's Master's thesis, where we tried many of these systems, including CAGED, to see what worked best in terms of actually learning the fretboard. Oddly, none of them worked very well at all to enhance our understanding (there were around 15 of us in the study) if we already had a working knowledge of the fretboard. Guitar is one of the only instruments that let you play the same note in four or five different places on the fretboard, so you stream towards patterns rather than learning the names of the notes. Piano, saxophone, harp, trumpet - one or maybe two ways of playing each note, so you don't learn patterns, you learn notes and fingerings. I think the breakthrough that I am still working on is to regard the fretboard as a continuous thing, all the notes are everywhere, available in any position, every scale is possible from all positions, and actually internalizing the names of the notes on every string and every fret.

I just thought of something. Learn to play all of the scales in open position. A, B, C, D major scales, etc. That will kind of illustrate my idea that all of the scales are available everywhere.
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Last edited by MC5C; 02-26-2019 at 08:59 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2019, 04:24 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I'm most grateful to Tony and Jon, for answering that question for me.

Yes that's what I was referring to.

So with knowing the scale, you know the seven most likely chords to use in that key(with local variations).

With caged, you know the different places that you can form those chords.

Bazinga!
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  #14  
Old 02-27-2019, 06:45 AM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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Another one for me was learning to use pentatonic scale for the chord of the moment , instead of just playing same pentatonic for the whole tune. Major pentatonic is basically a major 6/9 arpeggio , same with minor pentatonic and minor chords. Is great for a lot of playing generally, but comes in really handy with "outside" chords.
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Old 02-28-2019, 04:33 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC5C View Post

I just thought of something. Learn to play all of the scales in open position. A, B, C, D major scales, etc. That will kind of illustrate my idea that all of the scales are available everywhere.
If you think of the major scale as just one pattern, it's even more obvious, and it doesn't matter where (on which note or which fret/string) it starts, you are just playing in that same pattern with the corresponding major or minor chords. I use solfege to think all over the fretboard rather than memorizing different note names for each key- works for me.
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