How important is getting your arrangements in proper digital tab format

[stuartb]

thanks Doug for that insight.

Yes, in a nicely formatted notation program.

I think likely timing is an issue of significance for me. And there is a bridge I must build to allow me to play while someone is singing. That part doesn't come naturally. And sometimes I take a melody, and have written an arrangement from that melody line(s), and don't necessarily understand if I've changed the timing, as I tend to just play. It sounds fine, but what have I done to it - not sure.

I think adding a technical side might help, as long as I keep spend most of my time playing of course.

Appreciate your response.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I don't know about "important", it depends on your goals and needs. Assuming by "digital tab", you just mean nicely formatted using a notation program. I write most of my stuff out, but I publish books, individual songs, teach workshop and lessons using my material, write for magazines, etc, so having music written out is part of the game.

I also find it helpful for my own use - you never know when you'll want to dig out an old tune that I've all but forgotten. I also find it sometimes useful as an arranging/writing tool. I was just talking to a student who was having some timing issues about this. Writing something out is a good way to make sure you really understand how the parts fit together, gives you a different view of what you're doing, helps identify those spots where you're trying to cram in 4 1/2 beats into a measure, and so on. How it sounds by ear is most important, of course, but writing it out is a useful tool, and I never turn down a tool that might help.

[stuartb]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I have been using PowerTab: http://www.power-tab.net/guitar.php
Free. Windows only.

thanks for that, I like how large the notes appear on the page. Most programs seem to have smaller notes that are more challenging to read.

Stuart

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by stuartb

From your vantage point, how important is it to get those arrangements, particularly your own songs/instrumentals, into proper tab or standard music notation - with correct timing, and indicators for pull offs etc.,



I do read traditional music notation, not wonderfully, but reasonably, and I'm ok with getting both traditional music notation and tab on paper, but I want to know if going through the process of formally getting your music on paper, with a reasonable degree of accuracy to reflect the underlying musical intent, has helped you as you have worked through the process of learning songs and remembering complex arrangements - and perhaps it has also supported sharing.


Stuart

I don't read or write music notation BUT
Seems to me it would depend entirely on if your are going to try to publish for sale and distribution in written form to the public or not. If yes, then obviously important, if not, then arguably a simple recording of the arrangement might be just as valid/usable .

[stuartb]

thanks Barry, I'll take a look at guitar pro and power tab and see which seems to be more intuitive. I think I should at least try for a couple of my arrangements, to allow them to see the light of day as played by others, if nothing else.

I also need to focus more attention on timing, as there are some critical lessons for me to learn in this area.

Appreciate the response.

Stuart

Originally Posted by TBman

Everything I do is instrumental finger style.

I'll tab out (with notation) 99.999% of the music I compose using GuitarPro. Like Derek said, getting the note timing right is the whole deal basically. It's important to me because I will never remember what I composed without writing it down.

I also use GuitarPro as a learning tool for covers that have sticky parts. I'll put the score (or sections of it) into GuitarPro manually so I can play along (like the bouncing ball over the lyrics to those songs in cartoons, )

Some newer instructional videos have the tab within the video and is synchronized with the player. Neat stuff.

[stuartb]

I was thinking as a learning tool primarily, but secondarily, to allow an instrumental or two I've written to see the light of day, and a few arrangements of others songs.

best,

Stuart

Originally Posted by KevWind

I don't read or write music notation BUT
Seems to me it would depend entirely on if your are going to try to publish for sale and distribution in written form to the public or not. If yes, then obviously important, if not, then arguably a simple recording of the arrangement might be just as valid/usable .

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by stuartb

Let's see if I an ask the question I'm trying to ask.

I'm going back to basics a bit as I push to new levels playing the guitar. I've written a number of instrumentals, and arrangements and often modify songs that I do work on, with penciled edits all over the pages etc.,

From your vantage point, how important is it to get those arrangements, particularly your own songs/instrumentals, into proper tab or standard music notation - with correct timing, and indicators for pull offs etc.,

I have tendency to write out arrangement in tab which ends up being quite sloppy with little thought about timing, generally, on printed tab pages. I end up playing the songs as I wish to play them, but as part of - getting a better handle on timing and what it is I'm actually playing, I was thinking it would make sense to get some of these arrangements more accurately on a page, with the nuances and timing I am trying to achieve. I don't really think about the timing, for instance. I just play.

I do read traditional music notation, not wonderfully, but reasonably, and I'm ok with getting both traditional music notation and tab on paper, but I want to know if going through the process of formally getting your music on paper, with a reasonable degree of accuracy to reflect the underlying musical intent, has helped you as you have worked through the process of learning songs and remembering complex arrangements - and perhaps it has also supported sharing.


Stuart

Stuart,
I compose almost all my own material. I'm about to release my 5th CD.

I don't/can't read or write tablature or standard notation.

When I am in the initial phase of composing a piece it's all I can do to NOT think about it. It runs through my head incessantly.

If it's not memorable, I won't remember it, and so be it.

Now......If I'm a little buzzed, and come up with something that catches 'my eye', but I'm concerned that I might NOT remember what I've stumbled upon, I simply sit in front of my iPhone and hit 'record'.

If it still sounds good the next morning, I'll work on it.

Sometimes I'll think: What was I thinking??

If so I just hit 'delete'.

When a piece gets finished, and is finally recorded, I've got plenty of reminders just how the piece goes, and when my students ask to learn it, I teach it to them the same way I wrote it, but in far less time!

I want them to be able to walk down the street, or mow the lawn, with the piece running through their heads. I want them to 'see' their hands in their minds eye, being directed primarily by their ears.

If you don't hear it, it doesn't matter what you write down.

Best,
Howard Emerson

[rick-slo]

Sometimes I start up a tab on a new tune I am composing or even some interesting chord progression or melody/harmony I might work up to something more later.

As far as a working up new composition being able to hear a midi of the tab done so far helps me hear things from a different angle, as purely a listener and the music up to speed and without errors. Also I would usually be testing out new variations of part of the piece often stumbling into something I want to remember and tabbing out those that I like is a valuable memory aide.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Sometimes I start up a tab on a new tune I am composing or even some interesting chord progression or melody/harmony I might work up to something more later.

As far as a working up new composition being able to hear a midi of the tab done so far helps me hear things from a different angle, as purely a listener and the music up to speed and without errors. Also I would usually be testing out new variations of part of the piece often stumbling into something I want to remember and tabbing out those that I like is a valuable memory aide.

Tab can definitely be a composing/arranging tool. I taught a workshop on this a few months ago, where we created an arrangement of a traditional tune from scratch entirely in Sibelius - guitar in hand, but leveraging the tab program throughout. It's easy to change keys, look at alternate fingerings, and just see things a bit differently as an aid to what we hear and can work out on the guitar directly. I think it worked out reasonably well.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, too, but I sometimes use writing out music as a "getting unstuck" tool. Say I've got an idea for a tune, but only 1 verse, maybe 16 bars, but can't think of what else to do. Bring up the tab program, and tab that 16 measures. Now decide on a song structure I'd like, say, intro ABABCAB ending. Copy/paste that 16 bars into all the A sections, leaving 4 bars for an intro, 8 bars for the B sections, and 8 for a C, 4 more of an ending. Now it actually looks like a piece, just with a few holes! Intros and endings are pretty easy, so put something in (anything, it's a placeholder). Now all I need is 8 bars for a B, and another 8 for the C, copy/paste, and bam, I've got a whole tune, as a somewhat mechanical process. It's mostly just motivation/mind tricks, you still have to come up with something. But now I have a "complete" tune. Play it a while, mess with it, come up with variations, change, extend, and so on (I don't have to be locked to what I wrote out, and it will evolve). I don't always write or arrange this way, but it's a tool that I sometimes find useful.

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by stuartb

Well, notes I'm certainly writing out on hard paper now. I'm quite sure they do not reflect the timing of what I'm playing thought and thought i might learn something by getting it in correct digital format.

As a way to have a better understanding of time values, it couldn’t hurt, but it sounds to me like throwing technology at the problem. If you have accurate scores of music that is already in your head, you could try writing out the parts yourself and checking against the score.

You might find this part of my website useful. It gives basic information on time values, and the part that might help is a chart at the end that shows ways of dividing a single beat, with equal divisions on the left and unequal divisions on the right. The idea is to look at the patterns and to be able to hear them in your head.

[Chipotle]

I do it with all my finished songs as a way to save them for posterity. I write them up in standard notation using MuseScore, with melody, lyrics and chords.

Occasionally, I write a song that I'll be performing with others, so it can also be useful to send along to them (with or without a recording) so they can play & practice it when we're not together.

Back in the day, we'd take written music, stick it in an envelope and mail it to ourselves for proof of copyright, if it ever came to that (you could use the as-yet-unopened, postmarked copy in court, I guess). Not sure if a digital timestamp works as well, but if you're going to officially send things in to the copyright office, you need those written-out, printed copies.

[SprintBob]

TabEdit is another good tool IME. It creates the notation as you create the tab. When you place a note in the tab arrangement you are constructing, you assign the time value to the note which the program transforms into the accompanying notation. It has a Midi function that can play back the arrangement so you can hear what you put down. It also allows you to designate embellishments such as slides, hammer-on’s, and pull off’s (and others too).

I like using it because for guitar while I cannot read the music notation to play an arrangement, I have a decent understanding of music notation. When I take on a new solo fingerstyle song, I always get the notation and tab together. The tab serving as a road map for my fingers and the notation for understanding the time value (or perhaps the musicality/soul of the arrangement). I started late in the game with guitar and I’m not sure I have the motivation or patience to develop the ear skills that several here have since many have played for decades from an early age while I started at age 54 (62 this year).

[stuartb]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I don't read or write music notation BUT
Seems to me it would depend entirely on if your are going to try to publish for sale and distribution in written form to the public or not. If yes, then obviously important, if not, then arguably a simple recording of the arrangement might be just as valid/usable .

thanks Kevwind, yes, if I was focused on sale and or distribution, I'd definitely get the songs/instrumentals in digital format.

best,

Stuart

[stuartb]

very helpful comments Rick and Doug, thank you.

i will give it a try, as I discover the easiest program to use.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Tab can definitely be a composing/arranging tool. I taught a workshop on this a few months ago, where we created an arrangement of a traditional tune from scratch entirely in Sibelius - guitar in hand, but leveraging the tab program throughout. It's easy to change keys, look at alternate fingerings, and just see things a bit differently as an aid to what we hear and can work out on the guitar directly. I think it worked out reasonably well.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, too, but I sometimes use writing out music as a "getting unstuck" tool. Say I've got an idea for a tune, but only 1 verse, maybe 16 bars, but can't think of what else to do. Bring up the tab program, and tab that 16 measures. Now decide on a song structure I'd like, say, intro ABABCAB ending. Copy/paste that 16 bars into all the A sections, leaving 4 bars for an intro, 8 bars for the B sections, and 8 for a C, 4 more of an ending. Now it actually looks like a piece, just with a few holes! Intros and endings are pretty easy, so put something in (anything, it's a placeholder). Now all I need is 8 bars for a B, and another 8 for the C, copy/paste, and bam, I've got a whole tune, as a somewhat mechanical process. It's mostly just motivation/mind tricks, you still have to come up with something. But now I have a "complete" tune. Play it a while, mess with it, come up with variations, change, extend, and so on (I don't have to be locked to what I wrote out, and it will evolve). I don't always write or arrange this way, but it's a tool that I sometimes find useful.

[stuartb]

thanks for that input Howard - presumably someone puts down some of your songs into tab from time to time.

I do use the phone to record, though I find that I end up often with too many bits etc., and going back and finding the bit I want is a little time consuming, but I do use the phone. I've just finished a basic but lovely arrangement for a christmas song, and I do think I'd like it on paper. For myself, I feel it would be helpful to take that step.

I feel a bit like I have autism with the guitar, there are some aspects of learning that come naturally, and other aspects of learning where there seems to be a brick wall between me and the desired outcome or skill.

I'm creating my own exercises using melody lines etc., to get to know the fretboard, and would love that written down too, but i do hate learning new software.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Stuart,
I compose almost all my own material. I'm about to release my 5th CD.

I don't/can't read or write tablature or standard notation.

When I am in the initial phase of composing a piece it's all I can do to NOT think about it. It runs through my head incessantly.

If it's not memorable, I won't remember it, and so be it.

Now......If I'm a little buzzed, and come up with something that catches 'my eye', but I'm concerned that I might NOT remember what I've stumbled upon, I simply sit in front of my iPhone and hit 'record'.

If it still sounds good the next morning, I'll work on it.

Sometimes I'll think: What was I thinking??

If so I just hit 'delete'.

When a piece gets finished, and is finally recorded, I've got plenty of reminders just how the piece goes, and when my students ask to learn it, I teach it to them the same way I wrote it, but in far less time!

I want them to be able to walk down the street, or mow the lawn, with the piece running through their heads. I want them to 'see' their hands in their minds eye, being directed primarily by their ears.

If you don't hear it, it doesn't matter what you write down.

Best,
Howard Emerson

[stuartb]

thanks Norman, it is helpful to review the basics for sure. You've put allot of work into your website. I'm getting better at writing music and arranging, which is the good news. I do not strum, however, so when I'm trying to put music to a melody line that would be sung, it does seem to take me a long time to figure out the music that will work with the voice, if that makes sense.

Stuart

Originally Posted by NormanKliman

As a way to have a better understanding of time values, it couldn’t hurt, but it sounds to me like throwing technology at the problem. If you have accurate scores of music that is already in your head, you could try writing out the parts yourself and checking against the score.

You might find this part of my website useful. It gives basic information on time values, and the part that might help is a chart at the end that shows ways of dividing a single beat, with equal divisions on the left and unequal divisions on the right. The idea is to look at the patterns and to be able to hear them in your head.