2012 000-15sm - genuine mahogany or sipo/sapele?

[gr81dorn]

I don’t know what the M (000-15M vs the older 000-15) officially means, but I like to think it stands for Modernized. They changed the type of wood, they changed to the Grover Tuners, they changed the neck joint, probably more. They modernized its manufacturing and materials...whether you think they’re better or worse doesn’t really matter. I’ll just use it as the line of demarcation to what is the best all around value and quality in thr guitar market - the 15 series.

[guitar george]

What happened to Philippine mahogany? When I took woodworking in school we all used Philippine mahogany to make side tables, desks, bowls etc. That was the only mahogany I had heard of until I joined this forum. It would probably make nice looking and nice sounding guitars.

[gr81dorn]

Originally Posted by guitar george

What happened to Philippine mahogany? When I took woodworking in school we all used Philippine mahogany to make side tables, desks, bowls etc. That was the only mahogany I had heard of until I joined this forum. It would probably make nice looking and nice sounding guitars.

There are a handful of lesser cost and lesser quality mahogany type woods from that region - Meranti most abundantly and Luan plywood is made from it - super popular in cabinets and Millwork in the previous few decades. Probably not great for guitsrs cuz it’s pretty soft and pourous compared to the mahogany type woods used in guitsrs.

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by fazool

That was my understanding as well - they started using Sipo and Sapele interchangeably (calling it "mahogany") depending what they could procure.



They reserved real mahogany for more expensive models and listed it as "genuine mahogany".



I had two 000-15, one 000-15M, an OM-15 and a D-15M.



The 15's are my favorite Martin. I like the older real mahogany ones, personally. I think it has more low end and I like the cosmetics a lot more too.



On a side note. I think the fact that Martin is calling something "genuine mahogany" and then something else "mahogany" implies that they know it's not "genuine mahogany" but they are still calling it "mahogany". I know it's all marketing nonsense but (just to me) it feels like they are saying:



"this here is genuine mahogany" and

"this is fake mahogany"



Sort of like the back and sides: If you don't explicitly say it is solid, then you know it's not solid. If you don't explicitly say it's genuine, your default is not genuine.



Martin is one of my favorite American companies but I think this just seems to push the boundary of being misleading. Almost dishonest. If they use Sapele, just say it. Same with Sipo.

Awesome contribution! Thanks Fazool! Since you own or used to own five 15 series Martin guitars, what you say will definitely carry more weight.

Just wondering. Can you tell whether a guitar was made of genuine mahogany or Sipo just by looking at the woodgrain?

[redir]

Here's some good info on how to tell them apart but it's not easy to do in finished pieces. Using a hand lens or 10x loop and looking at the end grain is often a dead giveaway however.

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-a...s-the-lowdown/

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by redir

Here's some good info on how to tell them apart but it's not easy to do in finished pieces. Using a hand lens or 10x loop and looking at the end grain is often a dead giveaway however.



https://www.wood-database.com/wood-a...s-the-lowdown/

Thanks Redir for the link!

[DefendTheLowEnd]

So for what it's worth, I contacted Martin about my guitar. It turns out mine is "genuine mahogany" from South America.

While I am happy about this, I do feel what Martin is doing is deceptive. Now if only their modified low oval neck wasn't so effortlessly playable, I would consider other guitars.

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by DefendTheLowEnd

So for what it's worth, I contacted Martin about my guitar. It turns out mine is "genuine mahogany" from South America.

While I am happy about this, I do feel what Martin is doing is deceptive. Now if only their modified low oval neck wasn't so effortlessly playable, I would consider other guitars.

It is good to finally know what wood your 00015 is made of. This guitar is very popular here in AGF.

I was quite keen to get a 0015M/00015M but after reading so much in AGF that Martin actually used Sapele during certain periods in their production (can’t remember the exact years), that I decided not to get it.

Sapele itself is an underrated tone-wood because it is more readily available and less expensive. And since my Dread Junior 2 is all-solid Sapele, although made in Mexico, I decided that having this guitar is good enough because they would sound pretty close.

Just my 2 cents.