Too darn loud...

[MikeBmusic]

This is a great discussion. In general, it seems acoustic players understand the nuances of correct volume for the location. Of course it's when bands get together that the volume starts going up. If you have a drummer using an acoustic kit, and he plays 'full volume', then everything has to be turned up to balance out. And an acoustic piano (even an upright) is loud by itself too.

I'm currently running an open mic at a local bar/restaurant. They used to have a blues jam on that night, and of course every guitar player would bring his own small combo amp - at times they might have 3 guitarists with 50 watt amps up there along with bass, drum kit and PA with vocalists and harp player.
After the blues jam nights ended, I approached the owner about an open mic and his first questions were about the volume - he told me that the blues jam was so loud that people (paying customers not there to jam) had been leaving.
I keep the volume to a level that people seated 8 feet away can have a conversation without shouting - but that also means that people 20 feet away having a conversation can almost not hear the music if there are a bunch of people talking - this happened last time while a birthday party celebration was happening. A few people asked me to turn up the volume, which I did just a little. I walk around while others are playing to judge the volume levels. No one has ever asked me to turn it down, so that's a good thing. Guess I should get that sound level meter app on my phone, too.

[ManyMartinMan]

Except that every instrument (drums included) can be played softly and with nuance. The issue I see in this millennium is that many manager's lack the backbone to tell a musician or group, either during soundcheck or live play, to turn it down.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Yeah, I'm getting old too! Lol!

YOU'RE ONLY OLD IF YOU REVERT TO EARLY-BIRD DINING IN ORDER TO FINISH BEFORE THE ENTERTAINMENT STARTS.

Sorry. Was I shouting there?

My culinary opinion is that anyone on acoustic guitar who needs more than a Loudbox Mini in a restaurant isn't worth listening to. As a diner, I'm more interested in what you can do with your fingers than what you accomplish with pedals.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

YOU'RE ONLY OLD IF YOU REVERT TO EARLY-BIRD DINING IN ORDER TO FINISH BEFORE THE ENTERTAINMENT STARTS.

Sorry. Was I shouting there?

My culinary opinion is that anyone on acoustic guitar who needs more than a Loudbox Mini in a restaurant isn't worth listening to. As a diner, I'm more interested in what you can do with your fingers than what you accomplish with pedals.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Bob,

Could I pick your brain a bit on the subject of volume?

There have been a few threads about speakers, volume levels and such lately. For me, I really enjoy the sound of a tube amp cranked with a bit of saturation. Loud to me may be over the top for others.

During practice last night, I busted out a DB meter I downloaded on my phone. My amp was peaking out between 85-92 dbs from about 6 ft away. That was using my Orange head through a 112 cab with compression and distortion engaged. Without that, it was around 80 give or take. The Orange was at about 20-25%% of it's volume capacity. It seemed like a good level without going berserk. I also simply sang at close to my peak (no mic, just me) and it hit 90 DB's. This was at home in my 200 sq ft living room.

What is your (and other more experienced folks) take on what a max DB level should be?

Not trying to derail your thread. Just trying to educate myself. I don't want to lose gigs for being too loud.

Thanks, Roy

Roy, thanks for the suggestion. I just downloaded one. I think it's a good thing to have at times.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I've just written to a friend to apologise for my comments last night when attempting to play at a Jam (that I would normally avoid).

I have suffered obvious hearing loss and tinnitus for many years but, it seems that my cancer treatment in 2017 is now affecting both my balance and my hearing.

My trebles are all but gone, and my hyperacusis became problematic sitting next to a rather intrusive rhythm on his cheap guitar with old strings.

I cannot stand restaurants in "hard" rooms, and my wife knows where not to consider.

I booked two appointment for hearing tests next week, ad when I return to ENT for my quarterly check up, I aim to inform them of the damage.

Hearing aids just seem to make things louder rather than cleaner.

I would no longer consider performing for a non listening audience, I determined that some years ago, as I'm not into playing background music, but the way to do it, I long ago decided, was to perform at a lower level than to a listening audience in the hopes that some might actually attempt to listen.

I'm sorry to hear about your health troubles. You seem to be an amazing person and have become one of my favorite posters. Sending positive vibes to you!

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

And please consider posting critiques of noisy restaurants in such venues as Yelp.

Really?? That's just harmful to both the restaurant and the music scene in general. I'd politely tip and ask the musician to bring it down, or request a table further away or off axis from the speakers in a way as not to throw a fellow musician under the bus.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Really?? That's just harmful to both the restaurant and the music scene in general. I'd politely tip and ask the musician to bring it down, or request a table further away or off axis from the speakers in a way as not to throw a fellow musician under the bus.

My intent here is not to throw fellow musicians under the bus. But I certainly hope to see changes in a system where restaurant owners feel that a noisy establishment is a necessary ingredient of business success. I'm finding Seattle to be particularly loud in this regard, and there have been a slew of recent articles about this in The Seattle Times.

There is a new app to help restaurant users find relatively quiet places to dine, as was recently featured in The New Yorker. Read about it here: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...yelp-for-noise

[frankmcr]

Loudness is actually a big consideration in restaurant design & operation.

Many people in the industry believe that loudness is a good thing. It makes a restaurant seem like a "happening place", a place where people want to be. And in loud restaurants, it may well be the case (you know the drill, "studies have shown") that people order more and eat faster, which are both great things if you own a restaurant.

There's a ton of stuff on the internet about this. A brief article from the New Statesman:

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture...etting-noisier

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

we ask the folks in the room how the sound is. Why not? More often than not we are told we can turn things up a bit. We interact with our audience whenever possible, it's always been beneficial in more ways than one.

This!

I always go to the nearest tables and let them know to tell me to turn down if I'm too loud for them. I check with the bar and the manager as well. We have volume knobs, faders, input trims, etc. There are plenty of ways to turn down.

I tend to point my speakers away from the bar when possible, put them on the ground and pointed up as a monitor, or pointed under the ears of the nearest seated customers. There are even times when I turn my speaker towards me.

The nicer the place, the lower the volume usually. People appreciate being asked and like you said, it definitely pays off in multiple ways. I'm 44 and I don't like loud performances.

So many cats talk about their systems having 180 degree dispersion. I don't feel like every inch of the room needs to be covered with sound. I use two speakers if I need to do that and stereo faders to control the volume of each if need be.

Here's my setup this past Saturday night. One speaker on the floor pointed across me. There were even tables behind it that probably were glad to be out of the beam.

[Tahitijack]

I don't care if it's a restaurant, coffee house or a bar, if the waitress, waiter or bar tender can't hear an order you are playing too loud. Sooner or later a customer will complain or the owner will notice a drop in revenue and that's that....

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Really?? That's just harmful to both the restaurant and the music scene in general. I'd politely tip and ask the musician to bring it down, or request a table further away or off axis from the speakers in a way as not to throw a fellow musician under the bus.

Yeah, I have seen the stupidity of the general public at work too. I play at close to 2 dozen retirement homes. They come into the room (& sometimes wheeled in) specifically just for music. I had an old gentlemen set directly in front of my sound system (a whopping 7 watt Fender Passport Mini).

1/2 way through the second song he starts covering his ears and telling me to turn down. I asked the other patrons if I was too loud and they gave me a resounding no. I told him if he didn't want it that loud to not sit directly in front of the speaker. He got pissed and moved. Sometimes people just want something to complain about. I would like the volume to be at a level EVERYONE enjoys, but there truly are times when you cannot please everyone. Some people enjoy creating and wallowing in misery of their own creation.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Some people enjoy creating and wallowing in misery of their own creation.

Talking about my mother again!

[guitargabor]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Yeah, I have seen the stupidity of the general public at work too. I play at close to 2 dozen retirement homes. They come into the room (& sometimes wheeled in) specifically just for music. I had an old gentlemen set directly in front of my sound system (a whopping 7 watt Fender Passport Mini).

1/2 way through the second song he starts covering his ears and telling me to turn down. I asked the other patrons if I was too loud and they gave me a resounding no. I told him if he didn't want it that loud to not sit directly in front of the speaker. He got pissed and moved. Sometimes people just want something to complain about. I would like the volume to be at a level EVERYONE enjoys, but there truly are times when you cannot please everyone. Some people enjoy creating and wallowing in misery of their own creation.

Same thing occurred to me at my senior home gigs a few years ago.
Later on the nurses confided that he had major hearing loss and no hearing aid...


As to the general discussion, even pro musicians are guilty of over "loudness"

A number of years ago we attended a Gypsy Kings concert.They performed to a capacity hall of 4000 people.
Despite having all acoustic instruments except the bass, the loudness was so overwhelming that it was physically painful.

Gabe

[guitar george]

I went to a night club, many years ago, and was seated right in front of a big stack of speakers. When the music started pounding my heart started to pound rapidly and I had to leave quickly to avoid dropping dead. The pulsating of the speakers caused heart palpitations. My heart was otherwise healthy for many years thereafter.