Too darn loud...

[Mr. Jelly]

You know you have something going on when the audience asks you to turn it up. Oddly that never happens.

Sound carries pretty well indoors. Personally I don't understand why performers always have the volume loud. It's one of the main reasons I don't care for live music. A concert is different but in urban settings I want to talk with people. Most of the time you will find me in the back of the room or a side room. I'll get closer if the perform catches my interest.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Bob,

Could I pick your brain a bit on the subject of volume?

There have been a few threads about speakers, volume levels and such lately. For me, I really enjoy the sound of a tube amp cranked with a bit of saturation. Loud to me may be over the top for others.

During practice last night, I busted out a DB meter I downloaded on my phone. My amp was peaking out between 85-92 dbs from about 6 ft away. That was using my Orange head through a 112 cab with compression and distortion engaged. Without that, it was around 80 give or take. The Orange was at about 20-25%% of it's volume capacity. It seemed like a good level without going berserk. I also simply sang at close to my peak (no mic, just me) and it hit 90 DB's. This was at home in my 200 sq ft living room.

What is your (and other more experienced folks) take on what a max DB level should be?

Not trying to derail your thread. Just trying to educate myself. I don't want to lose gigs for being too loud.

Thanks, Roy

IIRC, "normal" conversations levels are around 60-65dB, or so. Do the math and let us know how loud the musical entertainment should be during a dinner at a restaurant.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

You know you have something going on when the audience asks you to turn it up. Oddly that never happens.
.

Apparently we do. It's happened on numerous occasions and that's after a pretty comprehensive sound check, albeit in a nearly empty room.

[Aaron Smith]

I used to do plenty of those gigs. In retrospect, I was often too loud. It's really hard to know what the "right" volume is, because everybody in the club/restaurant is going to have a different opinion. It's hard for a performer to get it right, you want people to be happy but don't want to be "wallpaper music" either. I always figured the best I could do was to watch the crowd for cues, and ask some people what they thought during the set breaks. Ultimately the owner or manager paid me for the work, if they were happy with it then I was too. If I was playing anywhere that walk-in customers were a possibility, they wanted me louder.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

IIRC, "normal" conversations levels are around 60-65dB, or so. Do the math and let us know how loud the musical entertainment should be during a dinner at a restaurant.

Yes, I understand but we don't play restaurants. I despise being "musical wallpaper". i.e. "Background music". If it's not a low volume retirement home we are usually at breweries and bars. There IS a difference.

We have done the restaurant thing and have no interest in doing them again. These venues are better off with muzak or an MP3 player and I tell them so.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I took my lady to my nearby Mexican place last Saturday. She was exhausted after work - completely played-out after nine hours of customer service, and I wanted to give her a nice, quiet night. The restaurant is a nice little family-owned place with good salsa and nice service. It turned out that a guitar/vocal guy I like was playing for Saturday night. He was set up at the other end of the restaurant, which has a sort of semi-open-plan setting with a sunken "plaza" in the center. His PA felt WAY too loud. He was playing DJ and spinning recorded songs up to warm up the crowd. The booth seat I was sitting on was sympathetically vibrating pretty strongly and my wife and I were having trouble hearing each other. She suffers from chronic migraines and had begun to squint and hold her head. When the waiter came over and we couldn't understand anything he said without repetition - and he didn't have an accent. I had begun to think were just going to have to leave but before I did that I went over to the manger, who recognizes us, and asked her nicely if they could get the performer to turn down a little. He did, and then sneaked it back up. Eventually the manager checked in and could tell that he'd sneaked it back up and my wife was uncomfortable so she went over and made him turn down. This time it stayed down.



All this is uncomfortable because I actually like this guy and his show. I think he recognized me from previous engagements. He really knows how to work the audience, always has a big smile, and just cheers things up. He went on to do a good show and we turned around in our booth and cheered him on after each song. Despite probably knowing we had asked him to turn down, when I went over and dropped a tip in his jar we both smiled and he said, "Gracias!" and took my hand for a minute so I guess all is well that ends well.


I know we all moan about folks who complain about the levels but there are good reasons to keep 'em in check.



Bob

I agree wholeheartedly. This was a restaurant, not a bar or a theatre. People like to talk at a restaurant. If I was the manager, I would have been very firm with him the second time as in "if you ever want to come back, you will keep the levels where I tell you. Do you understand?"

I have no use for people who think there way is better than the paying customer.

Here is an example of the exact opposite experience. I took my wife out to a nice restaurant and they had a musician begin his set just after we arrived. He came over and told us if if was too loud, to let him know. He was just behind our booth and the level was just right. We tipped him on the way out.

[Jeff Scott]

Back in the day when I was doing 5 sets/6 nights a week, our 1st set (the dinner set) was kept to a very reasonable volume, after that............... Actually, even then, volume levels were far more tolerable than they are these days, in general. We've stopped going to some restaurants that we like very much simply because we've had to yell at each other and with the servers just to try and be heard/understand each other. It's just not worth that BS, really.

And that's just the canned background music, let alone, live performers.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

Easy fix: download a decibel meter on your smartphone. Call the manager over and show him your reading. As a general rule, anything over 85 dB is considered harmful.

And please consider posting critiques of noisy restaurants in such venues as Yelp.

I'll say it is. Normal conversation is closer to 60dB. 90 is lawnmower volume. I'm sure that's not too loud for dance music from a rock band, but not so good for people eating.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Audio fidelity was always important to me, but now even more so. I use a Schertler AG6/S-Mic pickup and, depending on the volume, either an Elite Acoustics D6-8 or Schertler Roy. Both of these are extremely high fidelity. I set the amp off to my better right side.

A little more on this: I play Drop-D in a way that Mundell Lowe or Johnny Smith did (not Nirvana or Dave Grohl). I play a lot of walking bass lines and my thumb bass in general is a big feature of my playing.

The Elite Acoustics D6-8 is nicely ported and will give a full low end at low volumes, but you lose that as soon as you turn it up. I would say that the bass is great at practice volumes but lacking at gigging volumes.

The Schertler Roy is absolutely magical when it comes to low end. It is very much like the Bose B2 when it comes to low end: both at low and high volumes. It is the first amp without a separate subwoofer that has ever actually pleased me. The fact that it can achieve such a full low end at low (or high) gigging volumes is why I don't mind it's 50 pound weight. Yes it is heavy, but so is carrying around an extra subwoofer!

I may play at low volumes, but I still want my bass lines to sound full!

[fitness1]

80% of the live music I hear anymore (which isn't very much) is too loud.....especially in an establishment where people are dining.

I don't put up with it either. If they don't turn down, I'd just leave and make sure the management knew why.

Now get off my lawn...

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Now get off my lawn...

Yeah, I'm getting old too! Lol!

[zmf]

Originally Posted by fitness1

80% of the live music I hear anymore (which isn't very much) is too loud.....especially in an establishment where people are dining.

I don't put up with it either. If they don't turn down, I'd just leave and make sure the management knew why.

Now get off my lawn...

+8.5

Plus I've heard some good country/bluegrass bands in relatively small establishments that were way over-amped to the point where you can't really appreciate the sound of the instrumentals anymore. I'd like to be able to distinctly hear that guitar somewhere in that cacophony.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

...how is that “better” than the way the OP handled the situation?...why walk away angry when an amicable solution is a real possibility?..I totally get leaving because the music is too loud...i’ve done it...it just seems like Bob and his wife’s practical approach to the situation was a win win and hopefully the performer learned a little something about volume control..

Thanks. Beat me to it. The musician was good, the restaurant handled
it properly and all had a good time.

[alnico5]

I've played in an acoustic duo, and sometimes a 4 piece band, in a BBQ joint since 2013. If we are asked to turn down we do. Our little stage amps (Loudbox Mini and Fender) fill the place up just fine.

The other night the wife and I ate there. The young lady singer/guitar strummer and her harp player were way too loud for me, and I'm a rock lead guitar player.

[FLRon]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I took my lady to my nearby Mexican place last Saturday. She was exhausted after work - completely played-out after nine hours of customer service, and I wanted to give her a nice, quiet night. The restaurant is a nice little family-owned place with good salsa and nice service. It turned out that a guitar/vocal guy I like was playing for Saturday night. He was set up at the other end of the restaurant, which has a sort of semi-open-plan setting with a sunken "plaza" in the center. His PA felt WAY too loud. He was playing DJ and spinning recorded songs up to warm up the crowd. The booth seat I was sitting on was sympathetically vibrating pretty strongly and my wife and I were having trouble hearing each other. She suffers from chronic migraines and had begun to squint and hold her head. When the waiter came over and we couldn't understand anything he said without repetition - and he didn't have an accent. I had begun to think were just going to have to leave but before I did that I went over to the manger, who recognizes us, and asked her nicely if they could get the performer to turn down a little. He did, and then sneaked it back up. Eventually the manager checked in and could tell that he'd sneaked it back up and my wife was uncomfortable so she went over and made him turn down. This time it stayed down.


All this is uncomfortable because I actually like this guy and his show. I think he recognized me from previous engagements. He really knows how to work the audience, always has a big smile, and just cheers things up. He went on to do a good show and we turned around in our booth and cheered him on after each song. Despite probably knowing we had asked him to turn down, when I went over and dropped a tip in his jar we both smiled and he said, "Gracias!" and took my hand for a minute so I guess all is well that ends well.


I know we all moan about folks who complain about the levels but there are good reasons to keep 'em in check.



Bob

I had this same thing happen this past Sunday,in of all places church. The praise band was so loud that on 3 occasions I actually placed my hands over my ears. It hurt my eardrums in fact.

Hopefully my complaints didn't fall on "deaf ears".