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  #1  
Old 05-05-2012, 05:39 PM
kats45 kats45 is offline
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Default What Is Wrong With Me

I'm asking this question of myself: What is wrong with me? I play just the chords and rhythm/strumming pattern and I mess it up even when I'm counting in my head or out loud. It goes: 1 2 + a 3 e + 4 + a

I can clap it, but I can't get through the song with the chord changes, even playing the first line messed me up. So, what is wrong with me. I'm frustrated.

I've been keeping my guitar out when I'm home because it's easy to go to; it's a good motivator.

Does anyone else have this problem or is it just me?

When I was learning guitar many, many years ago I wasn't taught anything about rhythm, groove, or strumming patterns. So I'm handicapped and trying to catch up.

What's your take on all this. I'm a bit discouraged and frustrated. I'm accustomed to playing pretty much one or two patterns, but that just doesn't work with every song, plus it's boring.

Anyway, waiting to hear from you.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:51 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Try writing it out in 6/8 time.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:53 PM
kats45 kats45 is offline
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Ok, I don't understand that when the song is not in 6/8 time???
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:53 PM
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You say you can clap the rhythm...that's good already. Now, when you do that swing body your with it. Count off 1 swing right, 2 swing to the middle slightly backwards, 3 swing left, 4 swing to the middle slightly forwards. Repeat this a couple of times and don't forget to count out loud. It has to become second nature. You'll get there...
I just saw that about the 6/8 time...don't do that. 6/8 is basically 3/4 timing and it's not what you have asked.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:17 AM
Fliss Fliss is offline
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Playing guitar is like rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time - you're trying to put together a couple of different elements (the rhythm and the chord changes) and it takes a lot of practice to do that and get it all coordinated.

As Bern says, keep at it and you will get there

Fliss
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:00 AM
brahmz118 brahmz118 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats45 View Post
I'm asking this question of myself: What is wrong with me? I play just the chords and rhythm/strumming pattern and I mess it up even when I'm counting in my head or out loud. It goes: 1 2 + a 3 e + 4 + a

I can clap it, but I can't get through the song with the chord changes, even playing the first line messed me up. So, what is wrong with me. I'm frustrated.
Not much detail here but I notice the strum pattern has 16ths. To make the strum more automatic I would switch directions at every 16th and just make contact with the strings at the right times. If I capitalize on the actual strums (and use lowercase for the 'ghost' strums):

Dudu DuDU DUDu DuDU

Or, with just the actual strums:

D--- D-DU DUD- D-DU

Once it becomes visually more accurate, you may start to see patterns that can help you. I.e., the 2nd and 4th beat will feel the same.

If you can clap the rhythm but not strum it, work on the strum first. Clapping is useful to a point, but it may not help you incorporate a concept like ghost strumming. Just strum open strings, or mute them with your left hand. Add the chord changes once the rhythm is solid.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:12 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fliss View Post
Playing guitar is like rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time - you're trying to put together a couple of different elements (the rhythm and the chord changes) and it takes a lot of practice to do that and get it all coordinated.

As Bern says, keep at it and you will get there

Fliss
What Fliss says, that is your issue. I made a rather detailed post in the "White Man's Rhythm" thread about how to address this kind of issue, if you want to check it out.

Tony
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:14 AM
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Mr Fixit eh Mr Fixit eh is offline
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It sounds like it might help you to simplify. Play just the down beat and count 1, 2, 3, 4. Perhaps choose simpler songs for a while. Also, I would try playing along with a sound track, that will force you to keep the beat.

Steve
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:34 PM
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00Buck 00Buck is offline
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I usually play with thumb and fingers. (I won't call it finger style because that would imply that I know what I'm doing.) I decided to do more strumming a while ago. Here's what has been working for me.

1. Don't count. Listen. Get the rhythm pattern in your head and follow it. Counting just gives you one more thing to do and can turn you into an excellent mechanic.

2. Don't obsess. I know I'm not going to get it right for a while. I pull out the pick a few times a week for a half-four or so.

3. Keep it simple. Look for a few songs with simple patterns. Here are some super easy ones with distinctive patterns: Woman (Lennon – super simple); Do Not Forsake Me (Tex Ritter); Folsom Prison Blues (Johnny Cash); and here’s a more challenging one – All My Loving (Beatles).


Last, but not least, there's nothing wrong with you. It sounds like you've played the same patterns for years. It takes a while to break a habit. Try changing a favorite lick and see how smoothly that rolls off the fingers.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:45 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats45 View Post
I'm asking this question of myself: What is wrong with me? I play just the chords and rhythm/strumming pattern and I mess it up even when I'm counting in my head or out loud. It goes: 1 2 + a 3 e + 4 + a

I can clap it, but I can't get through the song with the chord changes, even playing the first line messed me up. So, what is wrong with me. I'm frustrated.

I've been keeping my guitar out when I'm home because it's easy to go to; it's a good motivator.

Does anyone else have this problem or is it just me?

When I was learning guitar many, many years ago I wasn't taught anything about rhythm, groove, or strumming patterns. So I'm handicapped and trying to catch up.

What's your take on all this. I'm a bit discouraged and frustrated. I'm accustomed to playing pretty much one or two patterns, but that just doesn't work with every song, plus it's boring.

Anyway, waiting to hear from you.
Don't count. I also have trouble playing a rhythm while counting. Much easier to feel it. Counting (esp out loud) employs the wrong part of your brain. It confuses the part that's in charge of the timing.
As you say, you can clap it fine. That means your rhythmic sense is probably OK.
In non-triplet rhythms (which I guess yours is), it's all "binary", or "duple" - about dividing into half, at various levels. You have a 4/4 bar, which falls into 2 halves; then 2 beats; then each beat contains 2 8ths; and each 8th contains 2 16ths.

As brahmz118 says, you need to have your strumming hand moving all the time. If the rhythm has 16ths, that means downstrokes on every 8th and upstrokes (obviously!) on the 16ths between. You just don't hit the strings on every pass. (Watch pros, that's how they do it).

So, if I have your rhythm right, it works out like this:

Code:
 
1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 
d u d u d u d u d u d u d u d u
X       X   X X X X X   X   X X
1       2   + a 3 e +   4   + a
The "dudu"s represent the hand movements, and the X's the string contacts to give the pattern.
To start with, make the 4 main beats the strongest downstrokes (count those if you like, but don't try verbalising the inbetween beat fractions). The downstroke on the half-beat should be a shorter one, like a second bounce from the first one.
Get the arm moving in that regular way, and don't worry about when you're hitting the strings and when not. It's much more important that your time holds solid than that you get the exact same pattern of hits as the original. (Most strumming patterns like this will vary throughout the song anyway, because the original player is probably not thinking about it too much.)
There should also be dynamic variation between the hits. Normally beats 1-2-3-4 are the loudest; then the 8th notes(the "ands"); then the 16ths. This will vary when there is syncopation - which you don't seem to have here - in those cases, sometimes upstrokes will be hit harder than downstrokes (which might be missing). But still the hand never changes its dudu pattern.

Last edited by JonPR; 05-07-2012 at 02:51 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:17 AM
kats45 kats45 is offline
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I'm going to try not counting, and see how that goes. I'll probably start off with a couple of measures of counting, and then drop it. I guess I'll have to experiment.
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:11 PM
billder99 billder99 is offline
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Most of you guys responding to this post (and the other recently closed thread on rhythm) have more experience than I do, but something I don't think anyone has really said.

In my experience, when someone has a problem keeping time on rhythm or chord changes, it is not a matter of counting. I think there are two closely related issues:

(1) Overthinking - The person is thinking too much... this is necessary at slower speeds (when counting), but at higher speeds you can't think... you just have to let go and feel. Foot tapping or table drumming and a bit of rhythmic body movement with a recording of the song seems to really help get the feel.
(2) Tension - Tension is a tough one. It takes a lot of work on technique to learn to master and overcome tension. People who have a difficult time with rhythms generally have too much tension. The only way to fix it (as many of you have already said without mentioning tension) is to SLOW down to very comfortable speed, work up slowly, while focusing on tension in your torso, neck, shoulders, arm, hands, and finally especially the fingers.

I am sure some of you can comment on this more eloquently than I, just wanted to share an observation.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2012, 01:06 PM
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Bern Bern is offline
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O.K.
I'm totally relaxed and I'm counting, 1 2 3 4
Now, try this and 'over think', 1 2 3 4
Lets try it totally tensed up, 1 2 3 4
Hmm...got it right every time.

Maybe a little extreme, but. you think they're counting ?
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Last edited by Bern; 05-09-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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