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Old 02-20-2021, 08:01 PM
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Default In-ear headphones with inline mic vs without...

Hi gang, any wisdom here if I would lose sound quality with an in-ear headphone/monitor/earbud that had an in-line microphone vs the same type pair without that option?
Thanks
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Old 02-20-2021, 08:45 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Hi gang, any wisdom here if I would lose sound quality with an in-ear headphone/monitor/earbud that had an in-line microphone vs the same type pair without that option?
Thanks
For what purpose are you using them? If it's just to monitor tracking, I guess they'd work but if you're planning on using that inline mic to record, I'm betting you'll be disappointed unless your bar is very low. And I can't imagine being able to mix anything on them.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
For what purpose are you using them? If it's just to monitor tracking, I guess they'd work but if you're planning on using that inline mic to record, I'm betting you'll be disappointed unless your bar is very low. And I can't imagine being able to mix anything on them.
Not to record with the in-line mic. I’d just be using the ear-pieces as backup headphones when I do voiceovers or when audio taping some singer-songwriter stuff. The mic is offered as a low cost upgrade option with them. I thought that’d be cool to have on the side as I exercise/walk and have to take a phone call while I’m streaming some music through them. If having the mic interferes with sound quality at all I’d just forget the upgrade mic option and stick with the earbuds/in-ear monitors by their lonesome.
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1997 Seagull Rosewood Custom Shop Model
Brunner Basic Outdoor Guitar
Eastman T386SB
Aria Sinsonido AS-100C/SPL (customized to steel string)
Mid 1930’s Kay Kraft Deluxe K2 archtop
Seagull S12 converted to 6 string lap slide
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:34 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Not to record with the in-line mic. I’d just be using the ear-pieces as backup headphones when I do voiceovers or when audio taping some singer-songwriter stuff. The mic is offered as a low cost upgrade option with them. I thought that’d be cool to have on the side as I exercise/walk and have to take a phone call while I’m streaming some music through them. If having the mic interferes with sound quality at all I’d just forget the upgrade mic option and stick with the earbuds/in-ear monitors by their lonesome.
So long as you're not depending on those buds to make critical recording decisions, I don't see why you can't use them.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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Old 02-20-2021, 09:51 PM
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So long as you're not depending on those buds to make critical recording decisions, I don't see why you can't use them.
Yeah, I hear ya (pardon the pun ). I’ve pretty much decided on getting some KRK KNS8400 over-ear headphones for those decisions when I can find a sale on them. The earbuds are pretty cheap, but have a good reputation for being pretty neutral and flat. I figured for the price I’d just experiment with them some with no worries about money invested. Thanks for your advice jim1960. I’m just starting out on this adventure and need all the help I can get.
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1997 Seagull Rosewood Custom Shop Model
Brunner Basic Outdoor Guitar
Eastman T386SB
Aria Sinsonido AS-100C/SPL (customized to steel string)
Mid 1930’s Kay Kraft Deluxe K2 archtop
Seagull S12 converted to 6 string lap slide
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Old 02-20-2021, 10:29 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Originally Posted by Brushwood View Post
Hi gang, any wisdom here if I would lose sound quality with an in-ear headphone/monitor/earbud that had an in-line microphone vs the same type pair without that option?
Thanks
In ear monitors and earbuds are two different types of listening environments. Most in ear monitors are designed to seal the ear canal from external sound leakage and are worn as a loop that goes over the ear.

I just got a set of Shure SE215 in ears and they sound pretty good as monitors but are in no way "high fidelity". The SE215 in ears are single driver devices and as you go up the monitor food chain they have more drivers, some have 6 or 7 drivers for each side. Each driver handles a different portion of the audio spectrum. They can also be pricey, and it's not unusual to spend $700 or more on a set.

I've only seen earbuds with built in mics, but some in ear monitors might have that ability.
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Old 02-20-2021, 10:53 PM
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In ear monitors and earbuds are two different types of listening environments. Most in ear monitors are designed to seal the ear canal from external sound leakage and are worn as a loop that goes over the ear.

I just got a set of Shure SE215 in ears and they sound pretty good as monitors but are in no way "high fidelity". The SE215 in ears are single driver devices and as you go up the monitor food chain they have more drivers, some have 6 or 7 drivers for each side. Each driver handles a different portion of the audio spectrum. They can also be pricey, and it's not unusual to spend $700 or more on a set.

I've only seen earbuds with built in mics, but some in ear monitors might have that ability.
Thank you Rudy4, I’ve researched and am looking at the Shure SE215 ones as well, but I noticed they are 22Hz-17500Hz and the less expensive ones I’m thinking about have a 15Hz-22000Hz frequency. I thought having that broader range might be a better choice for the general under $100 arena, but I don’t know about the drivers and I’ll have to look into that. I have seen where the price can get on up there for a set. I guess I’m interchanging earbuds with in-ear monitors and in-ear headphones.
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Martin 000-18 Norman Blake
1997 Seagull Rosewood Custom Shop Model
Brunner Basic Outdoor Guitar
Eastman T386SB
Aria Sinsonido AS-100C/SPL (customized to steel string)
Mid 1930’s Kay Kraft Deluxe K2 archtop
Seagull S12 converted to 6 string lap slide
Takamine TF740FS
2008 Pono PGKC (flamed Hawaiian Koa 0 cutaway)

Last edited by Brushwood; 02-20-2021 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:42 PM
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I’ve wondered about these too - are IEMs batter able to handle more input, or are they “cleaner” in sound than single driver headphones or earbuds? How do they differentiate, technically, between headphones, earbuds, and IEMs?
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:07 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Originally Posted by Brushwood View Post
Thank you Rudy4, I’ve researched and am looking at the Shure SE215 ones as well, but I noticed they are 22Hz-17500Hz and the less expensive ones I’m thinking about have a 15Hz-22000Hz frequency. I thought having that broader range might be a better choice for the general under $100 arena, but I don’t know about the drivers and I’ll have to look into that. I have seen where the price can get on up there for a set. I guess I’m interchanging earbuds with in-ear monitors and in-ear headphones.
Listen to reviews from users and don't get hung up on the numbers game. Unless you have a graphic response curve from an actual device then low and high end numbers don't mean anything. You're not going to find a IEM that will have that kind of response and be flat across the spectrum for the price you're looking at. I'd guess the actual response curve for the lower priced ones probably looks like a landscape of the Rocky Mountains.

Shure makes another IEM that sells for twice the price that has better high end specifications, but for the average user that's not going to be an advantage. There are many users (such as myself) that feel the increased upper range makes some IEMs sound harsh.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
Listen to reviews from users and don't get hung up on the numbers game. Unless you have a graphic response curve from an actual device then low and high end numbers don't mean anything. You're not going to find a IEM that will have that kind of response and be flat across the spectrum for the price you're looking at. I'd guess the actual response curve for the lower priced ones probably looks like a landscape of the Rocky Mountains.

Shure makes another IEM that sells for twice the price that has better high end specifications, but for the average user that's not going to be an advantage. There are many users (such as myself) that feel the increased upper range makes some IEMs sound harsh.

I appreciate your thoughts and I agree with you on the potential problems with that increased upper range. I was more interested in that increased lower range level and how it might be useful for a vocal in more the lower baritone/upper bass range as well as capturing the bass of acoustics a little better.
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1997 Seagull Rosewood Custom Shop Model
Brunner Basic Outdoor Guitar
Eastman T386SB
Aria Sinsonido AS-100C/SPL (customized to steel string)
Mid 1930’s Kay Kraft Deluxe K2 archtop
Seagull S12 converted to 6 string lap slide
Takamine TF740FS
2008 Pono PGKC (flamed Hawaiian Koa 0 cutaway)
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Old 02-21-2021, 10:16 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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I appreciate your thoughts and I agree with you on the potential problems with that increased upper range. I was more interested in that increased lower range level and how it might be useful for a vocal in more the lower baritone/upper bass range as well as capturing the bass of acoustics a little better.
No acoustic guitar produces the low range you're concerning yourself with. Unless you are using an electric 5 string bass with a low B string you won't get close to that. The same goes for vocals.

Remember that generally when you edit your mixes in a DAW the first thing many folks do is slap a high pass filter on acoustic guitar and vocal tracks to get rid of what's generally considered "mud" in the range of 100 to 200 hz. or lower.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:09 PM
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I know I’m probably overthinking this, but it’s also fun and interesting to learn some new things that I might actually be able to apply in a limited way. Here are two charts. One the Shure SE215 and the other of a SoundMagic e50. At this point, I don’t know how to decipher the numbers (and as you suggest I don’t want to get too hung up on them), but if you don’t mind...what’s your opinion between the two since you already have the SE215? IMG_1983.jpgIMG_1982.jpg
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1997 Seagull Rosewood Custom Shop Model
Brunner Basic Outdoor Guitar
Eastman T386SB
Aria Sinsonido AS-100C/SPL (customized to steel string)
Mid 1930’s Kay Kraft Deluxe K2 archtop
Seagull S12 converted to 6 string lap slide
Takamine TF740FS
2008 Pono PGKC (flamed Hawaiian Koa 0 cutaway)
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:27 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Originally Posted by Brushwood View Post
I know I’m probably overthinking this, but it’s also fun and interesting to learn some new things that I might actually be able to apply in a limited way. Here are two charts. One the Shure SE215 and the other of a SoundMagic e50. At this point, I don’t know how to decipher the numbers (and as you suggest I don’t want to get too hung up on them), but if you don’t mind...what’s your opinion between the two since you already have the SE215? Attachment 52066Attachment 52067
First, who produced the graphs? I'm suspicious.

I can tell you that IEMs are going to be drastically different according to how they fit and particularly how they seal the ear canal. Since I don't have the SoundMagic e50 ones I really have no point of reference to tell you first-hand how they compare, and that would only apply to me as they fit my ear.

For any critical application of IEMs there's a need for custom ear canal molds to be made. That's one of the drawbacks to IEMs and no off-the-shelf IEM with interchangable ear seals are going to be the best application.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:52 AM
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First, who produced the graphs? I'm suspicious.

I can tell you that IEMs are going to be drastically different according to how they fit and particularly how they seal the ear canal. Since I don't have the SoundMagic e50 ones I really have no point of reference to tell you first-hand how they compare, and that would only apply to me as they fit my ear.

For any critical application of IEMs there's a need for custom ear canal molds to be made. That's one of the drawbacks to IEMs and no off-the-shelf IEM with interchangable ear seals are going to be the best application.
The graphs were from “reference-audio-analyzer.pro”. Besides the 7 different eartips the SoundMagic e50 also comes with a pair of Comply foam tips which I understand help mold to the ear canal for a little better fit. These are the ones that also had the in-line microphone option...which with my original question in this post...I was wondering if it might interfere with the sound.
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Martin 000-18 Norman Blake
1997 Seagull Rosewood Custom Shop Model
Brunner Basic Outdoor Guitar
Eastman T386SB
Aria Sinsonido AS-100C/SPL (customized to steel string)
Mid 1930’s Kay Kraft Deluxe K2 archtop
Seagull S12 converted to 6 string lap slide
Takamine TF740FS
2008 Pono PGKC (flamed Hawaiian Koa 0 cutaway)
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:38 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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I know I’m probably overthinking this...
A bit ...maybe more than a bit.

Trying to pick headphones from a frequency chart is like trying to pick a microphone from a frequency chart. It gives you some information but it doesn't give you the most important information. For example, what can a frequency chart tell you about clarity or colorization?

As Rudy4 said, read the reviews. You're not buying pro-audio or even consumer-audio level gear here (at least not so far as studio duties are concerned). I've never met someone who is relying on ear buds to do anything of importance in a studio. There can only be two reasons for that. Either ear buds are not well-suited for that work or no one has ever thought of the idea ...and since buds have been around for a long time, the odds of it being the latter are pretty much nil.

If you're having fun and learning something, great, but spending a lot of time pouring over the specs and details of every set of buds isn't likely to yield some hidden treasure that the recording industry has yet to discover. So read the reviews and see which buds have impressed people and go with one of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushwood View Post
The graphs were from “reference-audio-analyzer.pro”. Besides the 7 different eartips the SoundMagic e50 also comes with a pair of Comply foam tips which I understand help mold to the ear canal for a little better fit. These are the ones that also had the in-line microphone option...which with my original question in this post...I was wondering if it might interfere with the sound.
I don't see why it should but I doubt you're going to get a definitive answer on that in a recording forum because buds aren't going to be found in 99.99% of studios. If you had questions about headphones, you'd find plenty of information in recording forums. I have four sets of headphones in my studio, zero buds.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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