Clean tones on Gibson humbuckers

[TiffanyGuitar]

I have little to no experience with 490s and I don't like Les Pauls. Something about how they fit in my lap I just did not like. So, I can't do any kind of comparison between Les Paul humbucker sound to my 335.

However, I do have a humbucker in the neck of my tele - I have it setup so I can split it. The humbucker is a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover PAF style. I really like it both full and split. The split pretty much sounds like a tele single coil to me - I can't tell much difference, if any. When it is full humbucker, it sounds great too. Interestingly, I use 250k pots and a .47 cap (mostly because it has a tele single coil in the bridge). People comment all the time how good it sounds. Not muddy at all. The body is pine and that may account for some of it.

Compared to the 335, my humbucker tele still sounds like a tele, just a little beefer (and quiet) in the neck position when the humbucker is engaged. The humbucker is not overly bright, nor is it muddy. Sounds pretty much in the pocket.

[ChrisN]

A lot of recommendations to "turn down" various parts of the signal chain to get a good clean HB sound. I think that's true, but I believe the supporting rationale is that some HBs sound better through 300k volume pots, rather than the "standard" 500k that's usually recommended.

I have a '93 LP studio with some unknown low output Gibson pickups (original covers, and looked unmolested, but output is in 7.5k range for both pickups, so, 490s?) that came with the guitar's original 300k vol and tone pots. I don't know if the pickups are original to the guitar, because the studio was supposed to come with 498T/490R, and my bridge pickup's resistance is way too low for a 498.

I "upgraded" the electronics, including 500k volume and tone pots because that's the popular wisdom, everyone knows you use 500k pots with HBs, and that a major guitar company always gets it wrong out of the box - it's up to the players to fix things. I instantly disliked the clean tone - too trebly, too shrill, no body.

Turn down the volume? Turn down the tone? Mess with the amp's tone/volume? Sure, those were the recommendations when I asked, and that worked, but then I lost the detail I loved. The neck was unclear, and the bridge was weak/quiet - like a cheap coil-split guitar. Add compression to beef things up? Sure, but it's not the original clean tone I loved - sounds forced/artificial. The only place things sounded halfway decent when clean was in the middle position, then finding a balance between the pickups I could live with. Still wasn't great, and avoiding the individual pickups wasn't in my future. I was thinking of dumping the guitar.
What to do?

I then considered the lowly 300k pots that Gibson's engineer/designer folk thought were a good match for their pickups at the time, and I researched the impacts on tone of using 300k vs 500k pots, especially the volume pot. Turns out the 500k pot is used to brighten a "dark" sounding pickup, but what if the pickup was not designed to be "dark" in the first place - what if that part of the paradigm is incorrect?

Now consider what happens when you use a 500k pot to brighten a pickup that's already not "dark." Well, more signal's getting through the pot and now things are too bright - there's too much something getting through, and the pickup is, for lack of a better expression, now spread too thin by the 500k pot.

Following the research, I returned my original 300k volume pots to their rightful places (tone pots left at the "upgraded" 500k for now, as they don't have similar tone impact) and . . . all was well. I got my full, detailed clean tone back on both pickups. Middle position was heaven. I love my studio once again.

The moral is, if your HBs sound too thin/bright and you have to mess with tones/gains to soften things, consider that you may need to de-bright things through the volume pot, first. 300k vol pots may be more appropriate for your particular pickups. Don't forget that Gibson put 300k volume (and tone) pots in many, many LPs, and that many, many LP owners "upgraded" their guitars, only to sell them to - - - - - you, who are now dissatisfied with the tone. Assuming your new-to-you guitar has its original pickups, do a little research on whether it came with 300k or 500k volume pots, and see what's under the hood now. Or, just try 300k volume pots - it's easy/cheap to do and undo.

[ghostnote]

I have 490s, 57 Classics, and various no-name humbuckers in different guitars, and they will all do respectable cleans - it just depends on how clean you think clean should sound. I personally accept them all for what they are, and use them that way. There are a lot of variables that come into play before the sound comes out of a speaker, and I find it not that hard to get something usable out of all my guitars. And I might add that if I still think things sound too muddy, there are a lot of pedals that will brighten things up considerably.

[Ian111]

Its not just about whether the clean tone is muddy or not. Like I said the burstbuckers in my LP has a good level or clarity and brightness. Its the overall character of the tone in general whether its a LP or SG that I’m talking about. There really is no “fix”. They can at most merely sound decent or good but not special or unique to my ears. If it sounds great to you that’s awesome. I wish it did for me.

[TiffanyGuitar]

I will say I really started liking my tone so much better once I got my current amp - one of the handwired Princetons. Expensive...yes....worth it....yes, I think so. Not sure what amp you are playing into and I might be preaching to the choir, but amps make a big difference. My prior amp was one of the reissue Princetons. Those are nice too, but the handwired one is a whole other and better animal.

[hatamoto]

I have a Les Paul Traditional equipped with 59 Tribute Humbuckers. I can get bright clean tones from it, almost like a single coil on steroids.

But yeah, I agree. Sometimes I yearn for a true single coil. Can't afford any guitars right now due to the pandemic, but one day, I'll have a single coil.

[FrankHudson]

I love the sound of a good single coil played clean too, but I also like variety in timbre, and so have guitars will different kinds of pickups. Amps and amp settings also react differently to different pickups, but like the OP I will run into a particular humbucker that just always sounds dull and uninspiring.

Things that get in that in-between space between single coils and humbuckers are the mini-humbuckers (LP Deluxe or Firebird style) and Gretsch Filtertrons or the like.

[M Sarad]

My SG has Throbak '63 TTop PAFs. Plenty bright enough but not as sharp as my Tele with Harmonic Design Vintage Plus.

[arwhite]

ES339 with '57 Classics played clean through my Fender Super Champ X2 sounds pretty darn good to me. Bright to warm and everything in between. It's all in the pickup selector and volume/tone controls. Love it!