Mics and pre-amps

[jmarmck]

Been away from this site for a good long while. Forgive me if this is already covered but it is an alternative to using amps and pickups, which color the guitar tone most often in undesirable manners.

It has become common practice to sell acoustic guitars with some sort of pickup system. But I find that most are inadequate as they color the tone. You don't buy a guitar for the sound of the pickup. You buy it for the tone of the guitar. After years of contorting input signals to sound like what I bought I decided that a mic was the best path.

There are an infinite combination of mics and placements that are used to approximate the acoustic tone of a guitar. It begins with the mic or mics. What do you use? How do you place them?

Of course the mic is only half the battle. The other half is the pre-amp. This is just as important as the mic as a pre can color the tone as well. What is you favorite pre-amp? How hot do you record?

I have several mics but I find myself using an older XML V88. Over the years I have tried some pretty odd mic placements to reduce thumb thump but have lately resorted back to the old 12th fret placement 12 to 18 inches out. If I am singing, I will rotate the mic toward my head. Finding a balance is necessary. I have tried two mics but find that post edits are more difficult with a vocal and guitar mixed on two tracks. I'd rather have it all one track an use mic placement to control balance.

The V88 is routed to a Grace M101 pre-amp. Yes there is a slight mismatch in the ohms but I get an extremely transparent signal. Almost too transparent. Room noise or snoring dogs can be a problem.

The pre-amp signal is routed to an Edirol UA-101 AD converter. Yes, this is an older converter but it has the ability to transform the signal to 192 kHz sample rate at 24 bit. This keeps me using the older converter.

This is the simplistic nature of my recording chain. What do you use?

[RRuskin]

3 go-to set ups, depending on the situation:

solo guitar: 2 Sennheiser mkh40's into Great River MP-2 preamps
1 Sennheiser mkh40 + AKG 414-TLII in MS configuration. Senny to a Great River ME-1NV AKG to MP-2's

In a track: Electrovoice CS-15 to Great River ME-1NV

[guitarman68]

Yes, different setups depending on the application:

Solo guitar:
a pair of Schoeps MK4 or Neumann KM-84 placed in wide A/B to a Pendulum MDP-1 preamp (tube) or a John Hardy M-1 preamp

In a mix:
KM-84, MK4 or U67 to a John Hardy M-1 or Avalon 737 vt (tube)

[KevWind]

Currently
Pair of AEA N22 Ribbons, into an A-Designs MP2A tube mic pre, into and Avid Omni interface/converters
Usually placed on a Rode stereo mic bar, and I angle them about 45 degrees in a V shape from so I get a space pair pattern about 14-16 inches apart

[DukeX]

Mics:
Various SDCs + LDCs (Sennheiser, AT, Oktava, 797 Audio, 3U Audio, MXL)

Preamps:
Great River MP2-MH
Sebatron vmp-2000e

Mic configuration: various

I record vocals separately.

[ChuckS]

For my solo fingerstyle recordings I use a spaced pair arrangement. My goal in the recordings is realism.

Matched pair of Gefell M296S omnis to a Gordon Model 5 preamp to a Mytek Stereo192 ADC.

[Doug Young]

Various mics: Brauner, Schoeps, Royer

Preamps: Great River MP2-H, AEA RPQ preamp

A/D:Apogee

I think I posted a comparison of several different preamps a while back - the differences were less than expected, if I recall. But I can't locate the thread.

OP asked about levels: I leave some headroom when tracking. Somewhere in the -6 to -12 db range, usually. Bring it up to CD level during mastering.

OP also asked about placement: various :-) spaced pairs, XY, MS. I've done a number of videos demoing some of these. Here's two:

[rockabilly69]

You know what I like about threads like these, it proves, without a doubt, there are many ways to skin a cat!!!

In the last few years I've been collecting mics, mainly so that I have enough mics for bigger projects, and so that I have a lot of choices for a variety of instruments. That said... At my house, I currently leave a Violet Globe Vintage (through a Langevin DVC preamp) up for 90% of my acoustic guitar recording. Frankly I've never heard a better single mic for MY purposes, and my guitars. My purposes are to get the sound of late sixties/early seventies blues/folk/rock oriented music, typically using a Gibson J45 or Martin HD28. And the accuracy of the Violet in catching what I hear from my J45 or HD28 is remarkable. I remember reading this review in Recordinghacks about the Violet and that's what prompted me to buy the mic...

I gotta say that the Globe was phenomenal all the way around the sound spectrum. In almost all of these applications, it had a satisfying, airy quality with very little coloration. Acoustic instruments and vocals in particular had an almost unnerving “reality” to them coming out of the speakers.

And man were they right!!! And this is a ridiculously quiet mic. I don't know if you can buy them anymore but they are worth searching out.

At my studio I generally record in M/S with a Neumann U87 as the mid, and a U89 for the side, both through a Sebatron VMP4000 preamp, and that combo sounds GREAT. Sometimes I just use what the U87 gets but most times I'll bring a little of the U89 side channels for the mix. I've tried lots of mics, but when it's time to record acoustics, these setups get me on the page extremely quick, and give me results that I can always work with.

My favorite vocal mics, and preamp combos are the Lawson L251 through a Manley Voxbox at my studio , and the Rode Classic II though a Langevin DVC at my home. A lot of people pan Rode mics, but the Classic II, to me, is a mic that can stand with mic that cost 3 times as much. I bought it because I heard Adele had recorded her breakthrough record with it, and she has a little grain in her voice, which I also do, so I thought I would give it a try. Recording voices with an edge can be frustrating sometimes as if a mic has a curve that doesn't line up with this type of voice it can get GRATING quick. Yes you can EQ much of that out, but I would rather start with something that flatters it instead!

It's funny, we all listen for different types of tones, and some people may feel what I like would be messy to them. But we like what we like. For example. this is my latest song using the Classic II and Violet combo, along with a Sennheiser MD421 through a Drawmer 1960 on the guitar amp...

[jim1960]

PreAmps:
Hardy M1
Demeter VTMP-2c
Sebatron Axis
Hendy DaVinci

Mics:
Gefell M295
Blue Woodpecker
AKG C414 B-XL II
Earthworks SR30
Mesanovic Model 2S
ADK A6

I've used various combinations of these over the years.
As far as I'm concerned, guitar pickups are for the stage. They just don't sound good enough for recording.

[islandguitar]

Very limited set-up compared to others.
Zoom H4n
Rane DMS 22 mic preamp
Shure KSM 137 condenser mics.
Files transferred to computer for processing. On tracks that will be part of a project, files processed by a sound engineer that I like....mix and mastered professionally.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by islandguitar

Very limited set-up compared to others.
Zoom H4n
Rane DMS 22 mic preamp
Shure KSM 137 condenser mics.
Files transferred to computer for processing. On tracks that will be part of a project, files processed by a sound engineer that I like....mix and mastered professionally.

Well that song sounds really good, so it sounds like you know what you’re doing with the equipment that you have.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by islandguitar

Very limited set-up compared to others.
Zoom H4n
Rane DMS 22 mic preamp
Shure KSM 137 condenser mics.
Files transferred to computer for processing. On tracks that will be part of a project, files processed by a sound engineer that I like....mix and mastered professionally.

I do much the same for You Tube videos:

Zoom H6, AT4050ST mic, transfer to computer where I mix and master unprofessionally :-) Surprisingly, that chain is pretty competitive with my "better" setup.

[islandguitar]

Rockabilly & Doug,
Thanks for commenting! Truth is.....I barely know what I'm doing!!

I think what assists and may help is: The room, broad band absorbers, and the Tony Vines guitar in the recording in my signature for that tune. It's all a reasonable partnership with my set-up, I guess!

These threads have been enormously helpful......so thank you for taking time with suggestions and thoughts. Love it!!
Fred

[anton]

My setup is pretty simple as well. I don't have a ton of mics but I pretty much really only record solo guitar.

Mics: Gefell M300 pair, AKG 414 XLS, AT 2020
Interface: RME Babyface Pro
Portable recorder: Zoom H6

The Gefells are my main recording pair. I recently got the AKG and am looking forward to doing more mid side recording with it. I use the AT's when I need more mics, or am doing recording in a place I would rather not take my precious Gefells.

The RME has two inputs w preamps and two more line in's. There are occasionally times when I would like more inputs and have thought about upgrading inputs. But I really really like the RME, its form factor, and how the virtual mixing software works. I might get an external preamp at some point to connect to the additional line ins.

I use the Zoom H6 for Youtube videos at times, or just to record in a place other than my bed room studio.

[RodB]

Also a modest setup compared to some. I only do recordings for Youtube or Soundcloud and in the past a CD every now and then for family.

The mics I use are an sE 2200a pair (LDC) and more recently an sE8 pair (SDC), into a Zoom H5. I use different mic placement depending on the sound I look for and in a constant quest for improvement. Mostly close to NOS, ORTF and sometimes AB.

I use very little in the way of processing, other than sometimes a high pass filter and some reverb - relying on choice of guitar and mic placement.

For this reason the DAW isn’t important, many would suffice - I use Tracktion 7, but I am pleased I have bought Valhalla Room reverb.

Whilst the Zoom can provide 96k/24bit recording I have settled on 48k/24bit as being as high as necessary.