alternative body shapes

[merlin666]

I really like the idea of the carbon fiber guitars and many of them are also visually appealing and sound great. But when I look at some of the posted pictures I notice that most of them adhere to the shape that is the given limitation when working with wood, I.e. bent straight sides and a flat bottom box. I think that Charlie Kaman got it so right with the Ovation bowl, as inherited from the Lute and Mediterranean instruments such as bouzouki. This adds a lot of playing comfort and projection, and I find the "corners" of wooden guitars annoying. Some makers add "bevels" to the top, which may be a step in the right direction. But with carbon fiber one could take it much further and really push the potential ergonomics and maximize projection. Please share your thoughts and pictures of some instruments that go in that direction.

[Earl49]

A few things are at work here. First off, acoustic guitarists are a very conservative, traditional bunch when it comes to instruments. It is hard enough to get them to consider anything but the most common tone woods in the first place. A body shape worthy of a Star Trek episode would present additional hurdles, even if it is more comfortable. Emerald is leading the pack with contours and ergonomic features and "outside the box" thinking. They take true advantage of the possibilities of carbon fiber. Journey and Alpaca also depart from the standard wood box form factor at least to some degree.

Ovation has always had fine necks, especially for their twelve strings. But I have never been comfortable with the rounded back -- it's fundamentally incompatible with my rounded belly. The bowl and Lyracord material might do some useful things acoustically, but I first have to be able to hold the doggone thing to play it! Standing with a strap is about the only way it works for me. I have played several deep bowl Adamas models in the past, but never liked them enough to pony up that kind of cash to own one. We happen to have a cool prototype Ovation resonator (koa top, palm tree sound holes, medium depth bowl) built for the Hawaiian market, since Ovations are so popular in the islands. It gets the least play time of anything in the house due to the comfort issues. It sure is a neat piece of wall sculpture though.

[Acousticado]

As Earl mentioned Emerald, they are arguably most pushing the envelope on avant garde designs that incorporate ergonomics, including the top bevel, back contouring and even optional very cool open headstocks. Pictured below is a 7 string X20 nylon fan-fret as one of 6 or 7 models from the "August Select Series". A 6 string nylon and steel string (non fan) were also part of the series. X20 owners have stated that the X20 is the size of an OM, but feels and plays smaller, which they like. Also that the combo offset soundhole/soundport design offers both the listener and player the same sonic experience.

[Song]

Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your Emeralds 'cause it's HOT out there today!
That's right, woodchuck-chuckers - it's (almost) Amicus Day!
Departing Ireland 8-23-2017, never to return.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by merlin666

I really like the idea of the carbon fiber guitars and many of them are also visually appealing and sound great. But when I look at some of the posted pictures I notice that most of them adhere to the shape that is the given limitation when working with wood, I.e. bent straight sides and a flat bottom box. I think that Charlie Kaman got it so right with the Ovation bowl, as inherited from the Lute and Mediterranean instruments such as bouzouki. This adds a lot of playing comfort and projection, and I find the "corners" of wooden guitars annoying. Some makers add "bevels" to the top, which may be a step in the right direction. But with carbon fiber one could take it much further and really push the potential ergonomics and maximize projection. Please share your thoughts and pictures of some instruments that go in that direction.

First of all, Ovation guitars are anything but comfortable when sitting, especially the shallow body models. I literally had to stick skateboarders tape on the lower bout of mine to keep it in play. Second, the shape of the guitar will dictate tone so there are limits to what shape can be used depending on the tone the builder is looking for. Third, the best selling CF guitars, by far, are the ones with the most traditional shapes, so it would seem most folks are not complaining about the traditional shapes.

As the saying goes, just because something can be done, doesn't mean it will sell.

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

First of all, Ovation guitars are anything but comfortable when sitting

Well that may be the case for you but is certainly not a general truth, as myself and 1000s of other Ovation players find them extremely comfortable, more so than "boxy" guitars.

Second, the shape of the guitar will dictate tone so there are limits to what shape can be used depending on the tone the builder is looking for.

That's one of the points I was making - the box shape is far from optimal and limits the builder. Round backs such as in lutes and Ovations provide better projection, and I am sure this could even be much further enhanced with available technologies.

Third, the best selling CF guitars, by far, are the ones with the most traditional shapes, so it would seem most folks are not complaining about the traditional shapes.

This is unfortunately true, and definitely a function of the lack of supply of alternative body shapes. If more choices were available it is likely that players would notice their various advantages and buy them.

[Long Jon]

You can make a wooden electric guitar pretty much any shape you like , but it has to be playable by humans, so that puts some limitations on the design.

It's pretty hard to improve on Stratocaster ergonomics, I'll bet that shape way outsells evrything else and will continue to do so.

If I tried to design a cf electric from scratch, it would probably end up looking something like a Strat

Merlin;

Let's not forget Blackbird. The Rider is a lute-like instrument that harkens back to the future with a new medium, new technology, and marvelous sound. Blackbird's Super OM, a Craviola type instrument, is also a significant departure from the traditional guitar shape, with new materials and new technology. Blackbird's new material, Ekoa, is also a bit of a revolution that looks like it's amenable to shaping.

The oldest U.S. CF guitar maker, Rainsong, has enacted the strongest, sustained, move from wood to CF and has been very innovative in its use and blending of materials.

In short, the CF makers are all over the map when it comes to materials, shapes, and technology.

Song;
Are you heading from Ireland to see the Irish pride take on the world's boxing champ? If so, make your bets early. The odds started out 8 to 1 in favor of Mayweather; they are now 5 to 1--$100 on McGregor could result in a $500 return. If you are going to bet, best do it now.

The "Money Mayweather" camp is spreading the word that the champ is not taking the fight seriously--he's eating, drinking, and making merry. I don't believe that, but what it means is that McGregor is looking better and the odds are changing. The age difference, the two year rest and retirement by Mr. Money, and the making merry all contribute to a leveling out of the odds.

This is off-topic, but Song started it.......

[Song]

I wish I were in Ireland, but instead I'm still languishing in the vile dungeons of Mordor.
But Amicus, the patron deity of forlorn musicians, is on its way from the Emerald Isle
to help emancipate me from the bondage of mediocrity.

I didna know there was a fight. Go Irish!

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Song

Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your Emeralds 'cause it's HOT out there today!
That's right, woodchuck-chuckers - it's (almost) Amicus Day!
Departing Ireland 8-23-2017, never to return.

Originally Posted by Song

I wish I were in Ireland, but instead I'm still languishing in the vile dungeons of Mordor.
But Amicus, the patron deity of forlorn musicians, is on its way from the Emerald Isle
to help emancipate me from the bondage of mediocrity.

I didna know there was a fight. Go Irish!

Congrats Song! The Amicus is a cool looking l'il guit. I think Kramster has one and likes it. Am I correct to assume you got to play one before buying? Now, enjoy the wait!

[mot]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

If I tried to design a cf electric from scratch, it would probably end up looking something like a Strat

We see this all around and is called adaptive evolution (cool example - what to do when there are no woodpeckers around). This doesn't mean that a Strat is the benchmark of what a good electric guitar should be, but it's probably close enough and CF form will likely be very similar to get a similar function.

[Song]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Congrats Song! The Amicus is a cool looking l'il guit. I think Kramster has one and likes it. Am I correct to assume you got to play one before buying? Now, enjoy the wait!

I've never even seen an Emerald except online. But it wont be a problem.
I'll have a go at anything that has strings. Ukulele, guilele, baritone, etc..
I'm already singing songs that should work well with the Amicus.
Anticipation!

[Long Jon]

Originally Posted by Song

I've never even seen an Emerald except online. But it wont be a problem.
I'll have a go at anything that has strings. Ukulele, guilele, baritone, etc..
I'm already singing songs that should work well with the Amicus.
Anticipation!

Stoppit ! It's late at night here,,, I'm a compulsive gasser ... THIS is on eBay UK.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Emerald-Am...19.m1438.l2649

I'm turning off my PC and looking for a late film on TV now before I suddenly get poorer.

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Stoppit ! It's late at night here,,, I'm a compulsive gasser ... THIS is on eBay UK.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Emerald-Am...19.m1438.l2649

I'm turning off my PC and looking for a late film on TV now before I suddenly get poorer.

Wow the emerald examples posted sure look very intriguing. So this Amicus is not a 12-string in the traditional sense as it seems the string pairs are in unison eh.

[Song]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Stoppit ! It's late at night here,,, I'm a compulsive gasser ... THIS is on eBay UK.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Emerald-Am...19.m1438.l2649

I'm turning off my PC and looking for a late film on TV now before I suddenly get poorer.

Sean will sell a new one for 1011.48 pounds, a savings of 37.52! http://emeraldguitars.com/product/am...v=7516fd43adaa