studio monitors for multi uses

[JohnW63]

But which ones wouldn't be exactingly sterile like I now understand studio monitors would be ?

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

But which ones wouldn't be exactingly sterile like I now understand studio monitors would be ?

I would say they are more clinical than sterile. It really depends as they really do all sound different.

I don't have any experience with the two monitors at the top of the thread. I have a pair of the original red Tannoy reveals and they were good except the low end always lied to me. But I bet they are very different from the newer ones.

Speakers have definitely gotten a lot better since I first started buying them.

I know this is maybe not that helpful. Speakers are really personal. Buying a newer monitor with a smaller woofer (below 6") is a compromise. Unless you have a very small room it will probably be a big challenge to get the low end right. A studio monitor will sound more accurate across the spectrum but the cheap speakers in sat/sub configuration might be more impressive in casual listening.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Psalad

The only thing I'd say is for pleasure listening, often a studio monitor is not the right choice. They can be fatiguing... often the revealing nature of them means they aren't pleasant listening speakers.

That said, one pair of speakers that is getting a lot of buzz is the Presonus sceptre... 6 or 8" models. Fairly affordable, though more than the OP wants to spend.

For listening I might look for a used pair of B&W 602s, though not sure what those are going for.

As I see it (or perhaps I should say, hear it) a studio monitor that causes listening fatigue is a poorly designed one. If the studio monitor accurately reproduces sound (which should be the goal of the monitor designer), it should be every bit as listenable as an accurate speaker system designed for home use.

The difference, if there is one, is that most studio monitors are intended for near-field use while the expectation for home speakers is that the listener will typically be listening from a greater distance.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

I was looking that that brand, but they have the shortest warranty of all the speakers I have checked out. 1 year. The others were 2 or 3 years. Is that something I should take as rather important ? UPDATE: I see Sweetwater gives a free 2 year warranty. But, you send the product back to them and they fix it. Has anyone used this service ?

The two year Sweetwater extended warranty is the real deal and has no strings attached.

I purchased an early version of the Zoom R24, the early ones having a history of developing a high pitched frequency in recorded material as a result of using the phantom power selection for condensers. Mine developed this about 20 months after purchase. I contacted Sweetwater, they issued an RA number and I returned it to them. They in turn sent it to A Zoom repair center and I got it back a few weeks later with the factory fix done. No problem.

After that experience I try to make most of my purchases from Sweetwater. They will usually match (or beat) advertised price if you give them a call.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

For me, the principle concern with rear ported speakers is possible phase cancellation. If the speaker is improperly positioned with respect to the wall behind the speaker cabinet, sound coming out of the port will bounce of the wall and arrive at the listener’s ears 180 degrees out of phase with the sound coming from the woofer’s cone this causes the lowest frequencies to be canceled out. The net effect is a less deep bass response. For this reason, I prefer speaker systems whose port is in the front making positioning less critical.

While I agree reflected sound is always going to be an issue. And perhaps close to wall a rear port may be producing a slight bit more amplitude in the lows reflecting off the wall, Also since sound propagates in a spherical 360 degree directions, reflected sound in all frequencies is going to be pretty much the same problems regardless of port direction. But IMO again far more effectively addressed by treatment than port direction.

As far as phase cancelation: Given that in the prototypical speaker placements and listening positions we use , while phase cancelation might be a possible issue in the upper mids and higher frequencies (for which the port direction makes no difference)
As far as bass "phase cancelation" in the bass frequencies is pretty much a non issue given the wavelengths involved.

To create a 180 degree cancelation, the distance of the difference between the source of wave (speaker) and source of the reflection (the wall) must be 1/2 of the wave length
So for example in a 72 degree room the wavelength of 50 hz frequency is aprox. 22.6 ft. which means for cancelation the difference must be roughly 11 ft.

[paulp1960]

I think it is easy to over think this. Everybody has to start somewhere and with less than ideal equipment and room treatments.

Unless the rear-ported monitors were placed on shelves pushed against the wall you should still be able to use them. The lower end Yamaha and JBL monitors offer incredible value for money compared to just a few years ago.

I don't currently own any studio monitors but I will get some more when I've sold some other kit. The last ones I had were JBL actives in grey aluminium cabinets but I can't remember the name. One of them died after 2 years. So I wouldn't recommend second hand active monitors unless you are talking high end gear.
I don't believe this entry-level stuff is very long lasting unless you get lucky.
I would trust Yamaha over JBL at the bottom range for not breaking.

Regarding enjoyment of music through studio monitors I would take the studio monitors any day over hi-fi speakers just as I enjoy my analytical AKG K702 headphones.

Edit: My previous monitors were JBL LSR25P like this review:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may00/articles/jbl.htm

Like I say one stopped working after 2 years so I binned them.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by KevWind

... As far as phase cancelation: Given that in the prototypical speaker placements and listening positions we use , while phase cancelation might be a possible issue in the upper mids and higher frequencies (for which the port direction makes no difference)
As far as bass "phase cancelation" in the bass frequencies is pretty much a non issue given the wavelengths involved.

To create a 180 degree cancelation, the distance of the difference between the source of wave (speaker) and source of the reflection (the wall) must be 1/2 of the wave length
So for example in a 72 degree room the wavelength of 50 hz frequency is aprox. 22.6 ft. which means for cancelation the difference must be roughly 11 ft.

My position is that it is the lower frequencies that are subject to phase cancelation. That is supported by the fact that noise canceling headphones use phase cancelation to attenuate the lower frequencies and conventional, passive techniques for the higher ones. It is further supported by graphic instructions from Genelec, a maker of rear-ported, near-field monitors, on how to position their speakers to avoid "loss of bass frequencies in the listening position”.

Phase cancelation can be an issue with any speaker but is more of a nuisance with rear-ported cabinets at the frequencies at which the port is active.

[philjs]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

For the metrically challenged, 5cm is only 2" -- if you're using XLR connectors then they're going to be this far from the wall anyway!

Phil

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

My position is that it is the lower frequencies that are subject to phase cancelation. That is supported by the fact that noise canceling headphones use phase cancelation to attenuate the lower frequencies and conventional, passive techniques for the higher ones. It is further supported by graphic instructions from Genelec, a maker of rear-ported, near-field monitors, on how to position their speakers to avoid "loss of bass frequencies in the listening position”.

Phase cancelation can be an issue with any speaker but is more of a nuisance with rear-ported cabinets at the frequencies at which the port is active.

Ah yes I see, Ok perhaps what is happening is we are not being clear about making the distinction between partial phase cancellation and full phase phase cancellation(180 degree) . In your post I was replying to, you mentioned 180 degree full phase cancelation. "sound coming out of the port will bounce of the wall and arrive at the listener’s ears 180 degrees out of phase with the sound coming from the woofer’s cone"
So it was that 180 degree phase total cancellation, I was talking about.


I think where we differer is in the notion that if there is some kind of actual advantage difference between front and rear ports ( very much debated in the audio community) is that possible difference significant in and of itself, to be an important deciding factor, as opposed to things like accuracy of design, placement in room based on dimensions as opposed to convenience and treatment.

For example in the Genelec diagram (with the possible exception of the "Min. 5 cm) the generalized placement recommendation would still be very much the same for a front ported speaker.

[KevWind]

I think things like what this article is talking about are very significant in putting together a home recording space

http://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speak...-interference/

[Psalad]

Personally the best port is no port... But in reality that's not very practical.

I think it's one reason why the NS10 was such a popular mixing choice (besides being cheap and ubiquitous).

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Psalad

Personally the best port is no port... But in reality that's not very practical.

I think it's one reason why the NS10 was such a popular mixing choice (besides being cheap and ubiquitous).

I agree about no port but there actually are alternatives to big sealed enclosures that is why when I finally upgraded after 12 years I went with passive radiator

[JohnW63]

I found this video that tested some of the speakers mentioned in the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oFwIyxSKjY



I found it to be helpful. The speaker with the flattest response curve sounded best to me. The JBL. None sounded as good as the reference track, but I suspect that is mostly due to having a 5" cone. Perhaps an 8" would be much better, but.. beyond my budget. I was going to ask about tests of the speaker with good mix separation or stereo separation, which ever term is correct, but I realized I would probably only mix very simple tracks anytime in the near future, so that aspect would not be terribly important. Me and guitar in the center. Maybe a secondary track panned left or right or both. If I really get brave, my kid on drums and the wife on bass guitar. that would be cool !

[ChuckS]

I only deal with acoustic guitar and sometimes vocals, so for me monitors with a 5" cone are ideal. In my price range the monitors with a 7" come sounded much more muddy. Regarding the stereo field, the Equator D5 design was done to optimize stereo imaging.

[121]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

I am thinking of replacing my 15 year old Cambridge Soundworks 2.1 PC speakers with something better. Since I am also trying to learn about mixing, AND studio monitors are generally higher quality that your basic computer speakers, I am considering this route.

I have noticed that if I am going to have them very close to a wall, that monitors with a rear facing bass port would not be the best choice. The room is a basic bedroom of about 12' X 14 with no treatments.

After reading up on budget monitors and checking prices AND ruling out rear facing sound ports, and a budget of about $300 for the pair, my list looks like this:

Tannoy Reveal 402
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...noy-reveal-402

KRK Rokit 5"
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...5-generation-3


Any opinions about these two selections or other speakers you could recommend in my budget ?

I don't know anything about the above studio monitors you are looking at, but since you mentioned you might be interested in other studio monitor recommendations, a pair of the Yamaha MSP3 monitors might be worth considering, and still be within your $300 budget.

Yamaha has always had a very respectable reputation in studio monitors, like the well known Yamaha NS-10.
I have a pair of the Yamaha MSP5 which are the next size up from the Yamaha MSP3.
The MSP5s have worked out great for me.

Discription of the Yamaha MSP series monitors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i9-1bYh9Zc

These folks have the MSP3 for $149 each.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=REG&A=details

Good luck in your search.