To upgrade or not to upgrade

[Doug Young]

Hey Barry, very nice playing on Al's arrangement! The recording could definitely be better, tho, it's not doing your playing justice. The main thing I hear, ignoring any noise, is a lot of room sound, which is totally common on home recordings. There are two solutions:

improving room acoustics

close micing

I also actually wonder if you put any reverb on that track? It could be that what I'm hearing as room sound is a really bad reverb?

For improving the acoustics, the ideal requires lots of acoustic treatment, but you might just find easier solutions (or ones more acceptable to other familiy members). Try other rooms in the house, or even different spots in the same room. Or try portable panels - Fran demos using just 2 on his homebrew music site, and it helps. You can stash them under the couch when you're not using them.

With close micing, the goal is to increase the guitar sound relative to the room, so you hear less of it. The main challenge is that as you get closer, you get increased bass from proximity effect. You can experiment with placement to reduce it, but in some cases, you can't win. Someone mentioned omni mics, and ironically, they can actually help in some cases. Yes, they pickup in all directions, but they have no proximity effect, so you can mic *really* close, even an inch or 2. So no your guitar is 100X louder than the room, and you hear it less, in spite of the omni pattern.

For you as a solo guitarist, since you're asking about buying something new, I'd also consider getting a portable recorder like the Zoom, preferably at least an H4n, or H5. These things have many benefits. They're like point and shoot cameras that take away many of the errors we make when we have too many options and controls. They're portable, so if your music room doesn't sound good, but your living room sounds great (they often do, just due to furniture, drapes and so on), or your friend down the street has a good sounding room, or the choir booth at the church, whatever - you can just take the recorder there and take advantage of the better acoustics. Plus, you basically sit the thing in front of you and hit record, and it should sound really, really good. If it doesn't, it's something else, not the gear. Just a thought if you're really itching to spend some money :-)

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Hey Barry, very nice playing on Al's arrangement! The recording could definitely be better, tho, it's not doing your playing justice. The main thing I hear, ignoring any noise, is a lot of room sound, which is totally common on home recordings. There are two solutions:

improving room acoustics

close micing

I also actually wonder if you put any reverb on that track? It could be that what I'm hearing as room sound is a really bad reverb?

For improving the acoustics, the ideal requires lots of acoustic treatment, but you might just find easier solutions (or ones more acceptable to other familiy members). Try other rooms in the house, or even different spots in the same room. Or try portable panels - Fran demos using just 2 on his homebrew music site, and it helps. You can stash them under the couch when you're not using them.

With close micing, the goal is to increase the guitar sound relative to the room, so you hear less of it. The main challenge is that as you get closer, you get increased bass from proximity effect. You can experiment with placement to reduce it, but in some cases, you can't win. Someone mentioned omni mics, and ironically, they can actually help in some cases. Yes, they pickup in all directions, but they have no proximity effect, so you can mic *really* close, even an inch or 2. So no your guitar is 100X louder than the room, and you hear it less, in spite of the omni pattern.

For you as a solo guitarist, since you're asking about buying something new, I'd also consider getting a portable recorder like the Zoom, preferably at least an H4n, or H5. These things have many benefits. They're like point and shoot cameras that take away many of the errors we make when we have too many options and controls. They're portable, so if your music room doesn't sound good, but your living room sounds great (they often do, just due to furniture, drapes and so on), or your friend down the street has a good sounding room, or the choir booth at the church, whatever - you can just take the recorder there and take advantage of the better acoustics. Plus, you basically sit the thing in front of you and hit record, and it should sound really, really good. If it doesn't, it's something else, not the gear. Just a thought if you're really itching to spend some money :-)

Thanks Doug! Yes, I did use the reverb in Audacity.

One of our members, Pippin, gets excellent recordings at home with a behringer interface and two cheap mics. I'm scratching my head as to how he got such great recordings.

I'll try moving the mics in. I read that there are low pass and high pass filter tools to use, one of which cuts out too much bass.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by islandguitar

Condenser Mics will pluck a nats fart from 1,000 paces away

So true! you've got me laughing out loud here!
Before I record in our dining room, I have a little drill which I have to go through before I start.
-turn down thermostat so the heat/furnace won't go on while I'm playing.
-Unplug the DVR with its fan noise coming from the next room.
-Go down to the basement and turn off the circuit breaker which controls the fridge.
-move the clock off the wall in the dining room and take it to the next room....it's quite loud.
Only then is there a chance of "quiet" providing that cars/birds and wind outside don't get me! What a crap shoot.
Beyond this, I've enjoyed success with treatment with several acoustic panels (portable) which I set up around me. As others indicate, this has proven to be a "must" even for my very basic little recording set-up.

Thanks for the suggestions! Next time I record I'll be sure to check the thermostat. I'm going to look into the portable panels.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by TBman

Thanks for the suggestions! Next time I record I'll be sure to check the thermostat. I'm going to look into the portable panels.

You could check with ATS for premade panels (atsacoustics.com). They also have a lot of information on DIY materials (i.e. Owens Corning OC703 & Roxul Rockwool 60/80 insulating materials).

If you decide to build your own there are less expensive outlets for the insulation. I ended up building 6 panels using Rockboard 80. All are 4" thickness; 5 are 2' x 5', and 1 is 2' x 4'.

[islandguitar]

Thanks Barry! I went with these.....just 3 panels which is all the storage I could work with. When not in use I store in a small closet.They do stand on their own with a little prop help here and there, but are not "floppy". I just wrapped them in green burlap and pinned them closed, so nothing serious with looks, just function. I liked the "eco" aspect in case I needed to recycle. They do "shed" a bit, but are fine once covered. Some very good reviews for what it's worth

http://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-i...ic-insulation/

Fran Guidry has a nice video on his web site which highlights his use of just two of these types of panels. Just depends on your set-up and space/storage requirements.

[alohachris]

Aloha Barry!

PM'ed Ya!

[TBman]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

You could check with ATS for premade panels (atsacoustics.com). They also have a lot of information on DIY materials (i.e. Owens Corning OC703 & Roxul Rockwool 60/80 insulating materials).

If you decide to build your own there are less expensive outlets for the insulation. I ended up building 6 panels using Rockboard 80. All are 4" thickness; 5 are 2' x 5', and 1 is 2' x 4'.

Originally Posted by islandguitar

Thanks Barry! I went with these.....just 3 panels which is all the storage I could work with. When not in use I store in a small closet.They do stand on their own with a little prop help here and there, but are not "floppy". I just wrapped them in green burlap and pinned them closed, so nothing serious with looks, just function. I liked the "eco" aspect in case I needed to recycle. They do "shed" a bit, but are fine once covered. Some very good reviews for what it's worth

http://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-i...ic-insulation/

Fran Guidry has a nice video on his web site which highlights his use of just two of these types of panels. Just depends on your set-up and space/storage requirements.

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Barry!

PM'ed Ya!

Thanks everyone! I'm going to look into panels and see what I can come up with.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

Adequately treat your space first before upgrading any gear. That's the biggest bang for the buck in terms of immediate & audible recording improvement.

Behringer is never an "upgrade," IMO.

An interface upgrade from something like the US-122 would be to RME or Apogee. Much better mic preamps, conversion, pristine sound & everything else.

Treat first.

Good Luck,

alohachris

+1

Regards,

Ty Ford