So? What's "wrong" with just strumming and singing?

[jdinco]

There's a small pond below our home that usually has a lot of geese on it. The one time I tried to sing out on the back deck.....about 50 of them flew away. Could have been 51, I'm not sure. I took the hint.

[J Patrick]

....a few of my favorite strummers and singers...

...Slaid Cleaves

....Jonathan Edwards

....Neil Young

...Ritchie Havens

....Dave Matthews

....Amos Lee

....Paul Simon

...John Prine

....not bad company...

...oh...and some guy named Bob Dylan

[Riverwolf]

There is nothing wrong with reaching a level and saying "good enough".
How many of us really in the beginning wanted to be Eddie Van Halen?
Not me.
Still don't.
I am somewhere between advanced beginner and intermediate.
Probably always will be and that is just fine with me.
I also don't understand folks who don't sing, at least to themselves.
How do they even know where they are in a song?

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by Nimiety

...Why? Not interesting? Too boring? No place for it? No market?....

Heh. I wouldn't say that. Here's a guy who's just "strumming and singing." OK, he's got some backup players who come in, but they're pretty subtle and laid back. His "cowboy chords" are the same pattern over and over, but man, does it work!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Nimiety

...When I started with guitar, my goal was to learn to strum, so I could accompany beginner violin students. Many adults prefer fiddle music, and it's a way to help them keep time and provide a "performance" atmosphere which is a lot of fun - and different than a violin duet.

Then I realized that I can actually sing along with the guitar! After thinking I couldn't sing (maybe because I have a deep voice, likely contralto, and couldn't manage to fit in with the other girls), turns out I can sing (even if not especially well)...

Maybe it's not a high-level achievement, but it's still an achievement. My current goal is to polish my strumming/singing the best I can...

I wouldn't worry about having a contralto voice - didn't hurt Cher or Karen Carpenter (or my wife) any, and if there's a chapter of the Sweet Adelines women's barbershop chorus in your town you're practically a shoe-in...

When I was a fifth-grade classroom teacher we had a saying when approaching seemingly "insurmountable" projects: "How do you eat an elephant - one small bite at a time." You've started off simple, set readily-achievable short-term goals, and shown initiative and determination to succeed - IME progress will inevitably follow, and possibly sooner than you expect...

As you familiarize yourself with the fingerboard and basic chord fingerings/patterns, there are easy ways to make your playing both complimentary to the fiddlers you're accompanying and interesting to the listener: varying your strumming patterns, changing dynamic level, alternating between bass and treble strings to set up a "two-guitar" feel (also known as "Carter-picking"), using ascending/descending bass lines during chord/verse transitions, emphasizing certain notes within a chord to create a harmony line to the fiddler's melody - just to name a few. While it's nice to be able to rip off sixty-fourth-note runs at breakneck speed (and there are in fact several fellow Forumites who have that ability ) the mark of a true professional musician is the ability to lay down a line that best compliments a given piece of music - phrasing, dynamics, tone color, register (high or low range of the guitar), et al. - and as I'm sure you've discovered with your own students, even a simple tune well-played can be a worthwhile musical experience. Keep doing what you're doing - ask a guitar-playing friend to give you some suggestions, or feel free to ask here on the AGF (we're always glad to help ) - make some recordings of your own playing right now (nothing fancy - a smartphone will do just fine) and revisit them in a year from now; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised - which leads me to:

Originally Posted by CoryB

...I’m amazed at people who can play lead or bass and sing at the same time. My brain won’t do that.

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones - I've been able to do that since my early teens (lead or bass, and the former on different instruments) - but I'll also be the first to tell you that it's an acquired rather than innate ability - one that I started cultivating almost from the get-go, picking out simple single-note lines to complement my singing and progressing from there as my ability improved. Don't expect to sound like George Benson or Paul McCartney any time soon (in case you never noticed, Sir Paulie Mac had the ability to lay down complex rhythmic/melodic patterns while singing an unrelated vocal line - without looking at the fingerboard ), but with a bit of practice you should at least be able to do cowboy-style bass runs against your strumming and vocals, or play a single-note harmony line against your vocal melody...

[YamahaGuy]

The same thing that's wrong with drag racing an automatic, or using a capo.

[FingahPickah]

I don't believe I, personally, have seen any derogatory remarks or impressions expressed within the AGF walls. I have, however, seen threads about "guitar snobs" and AGF'ers poking a little fun at themselves. Occasionally, maybe some points taken a bit too literally (IMO).

And unfortunately, even a few bait'ers who seem to enjoy disagreeing for the sake of it (I guess).

Who holds exclusive dominion over the definition of "music" ? Elvis was a strummer, Bob Dylan is a strummer (and his singing skills have often been debated). The list goes on.

I say, anyone who enjoys strumming and singing songs (or just strumming or just singing) is doing something worthwhile regardless of the opinions of others.

[docwatsonfan]

op, you might find some good singer / strummer videos if you google
John Cougar Mellancamp
and
Melissa Etheridge

[Maicobmw]

Originally Posted by srbell

Nothing at all wrong with strumming and singing! It's about enjoying yourself. That's one of the wonderful things about guitar, and really music overall - it can be as easy or difficult, simple, or complex as anyone could ever want. I've been playing for decades and have found my focus has changed many times over the years, classical, rock, lead, rhythm, jazz, country, Christian, etc. I've come to realize that for most people it's not about being flashy or fast or how expensive your equipment is. It's more about the song and how it makes them feel. I'll take a simple song that moves me emotionally over impressive technique any day! Play what makes YOU happy!

With you all the way.

[czgunner]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

Heh. I wouldn't say that. Here's a guy who's just "strumming and singing." OK, he's got some backup players who come in, but they're pretty subtle and laid back. His "cowboy chords" are the same pattern over and over, but man, does it work!

I remember reading an interview with Tom Petty. When asked about his critics talking about his "easy, 3 chord songs", Petty replied, " why don't they do it?" I think his list of hits emphasizes that.

[leew3]

Great responses folks and put me in the camp with all of the encouragement you've gotten thus far. I often cite Woody Guthrie who when asked by the engineer for his first radio show "are you any good?" responded "I like it just fine!" And a fine strummer he was.

On another note. Both of the videos of famous musicians shared on this thread feature them playing a J 200. Coincidence, or a secret message from the universe that I need a new guitar?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Nimiety

Just curious about perception.

When I started with guitar, my goal was to learn to strum, so I could accompany beginner violin students. Many adults prefer fiddle music, and it's a way to help them keep time and provide a "performance" atmosphere which is a lot of fun - and different than a violin duet.

Then I realized that I can actually sing along with the guitar! After thinking I couldn't sing (maybe because I have a deep voice, likely contralto, and couldn't manage to fit in with the other girls), turns out I can sing (even if not especially well). Regardless, I'm pumped!

Then I read all the derogatory comments about cowboy guitars and 3-chord strummers, posers, etc. Rather discouraging.

So, fine. Maybe it's not a high-level achievement, but it's still an achievement. My current goal is to polish my strumming/singing the best I can.

Yet, I can't seem to find videos of polished "simple" performances. Lessons, yes. Examples during a lesson, yes. But not an actual performance.

Why? Not interesting? Too boring? No place for it? No market?

I find it all a bit amusing too. Way back when (before my time even) people would gather in the parlour and sing and play instruments. Great way to engage and entertain. Now you have kids taking piano lessons (or other lessons) for years who won't play in public because they think they're not good enough, etc. Why can't it be simple?

Every once in a while you'll see a post/thread where someone posts a video of someone playing and singing and go on a little bit about how great a player the person is and how they want to play like that, yada yada yada. Then a few finger style players will point out that the player isn't playing anything but a few "cowboy" chords and what's the big deal.

Then the debates start and the lasting impression can be that some are guitar snobs. They aren't really, they are just people that appreciate the dedication it takes to achieve certain levels and kinds of playing skills, while others appreciate vocals more and the guitar is merely an accessory/backup instrument to them.

Finger style playing can be more challenging than strumming chords (but which chords? LOL), but bad finger style does not sound better than good strumming. In the "chord" playing camp you have jazz musicians that take things to a completely different level and then there are people that blend everything together.

So guitar playing is a mixed bag and we all get different things from it. The bottom line to me is to enjoy what I can do and not rain on someone else's parade.

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by Nimiety

Yet, I can't seem to find videos of polished "simple" performances. Lessons, yes. Examples during a lesson, yes. But not an actual performance.

Why? Not interesting? Too boring? No place for it? No market?

Here is a RnRHOF guy with a deep voice strumming for you, courtesy of Marty over in the Listen forum today.

[Glennwillow]

I bet if you took a poll here on the AGF we'd find that there are more guitar players who strum than finger pick. I like to finger pick, and I do, mostly, but I still do plenty of songs that are strummed. It's part of the standard guitar repertory in my opinion. And good guitar strummers are not beginners; there are plenty of accomplished players that are terrific strummers. A couple of great examples below...

Gordon Lightfoot playing "Canadian Railroad Trilogy:"



Pete Townshend playing "Pinball Wizard:"



I think in recent years with so many instrumental players showing guitar players that you don't have to sing to make music that a lot of players have been working on fingerstyle playing. And there are plenty of classically trained guitarists here. That, however, does not mean that anyone here on the forum should be disparaging those who enjoy singing and strumming. The "Be Nice" rule here should be keeping anyone from doing that. If they aren't, please let the AGF moderators know.

Regarding references to "cowboy chords," I really don't think you should be offended by that. It's just another name for first position chords, and that's mostly what cowboys played and sang with. They were doing the same thing around the campfire that you like to do, which sounds like a good time to me. Gene Autry and Roy Rogers made some nice music that way.

Making music should be primarily about making yourself happy. It sounds like you are already doing that, which is terrific.

- Glenn

[Mandobart]

I've spent most of my life playing music. You do anything long enough, you'll find beginners seeking your advice/training/input/feedback now and then. I've participated in a lot of workshops, song circles and jams as well as leading a few.

To me, what's wrong with anything is when it becomes self-limiting. Whenever I hear "all I want is to be able to _____", "I know I'll never be a fingerstyle player" or "I'll never play for an audience" my defeatist apologist detectors start pinging. How do any of us know where we'll be 5, 10, 20 years down the line? Are we giving up that easy?

I've seen, played with and attempted to teach a few permanent beginners. Their problem isn't a lack of talent, physical limitations or time. They lack imagination, the ability to visualize slow, steady improvement, they lack curiosity. They look for the how-to-play cookbook instead of embracing the long haul nature of learning by doing, experimenting and collaborating.

Enjoy the learning process. You start out sucking and gradually suck a little less as you learn. We all learned the first position cowboy chords and simple rhythms. Some songs need nothing more. But the deeper you dive into inversions, cross picking, fingerpicking, lead runs, intros, outros, etc. the better everything else gets, including simple strummed cowboy chord campfire singalong.

I think some of the negatives we hear about basic skills are when we see someone determined to stop there, because we know there is so much more. Why stop permanently at first base?