The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-03-2019, 12:28 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,322
Default Another Emerald Mod!

Crazy mod man is at it again. There was a thread a while ago about someone installing a zero glide nut on a Journey carbon fiber guitar. It peaked my interest enough to order one and install it on my Les Paul. I honestly had no expectations as I've never tried any guitar with any type of zero fret. I loved the results on the electric so than I got thinking what would it be like on an acoustic guitar.

I was on their website today looking at nut sizes and the closest one they had to the nuts Emerald uses is a ZS-14 I believe. You can also get one custom made starting at $70. Pretty pricey for a nut. Than I got an idea. I had 3 pieces of fret wire left over from the kit. I grabbed the medium fret, as that's the same size as Emerald's frets (not that it really matters) and took out the old dremel and sanded the bottom flat, followed by some fine sanding by hand. Cut it to size filed the ends down bla bla bla and just sat it up against the nut (no glue).

Most important part, how does it sound? Do I like it? I wouldn't be making a post about it if I didn't like it. I put this one on the X30 but I'm gonna make another for the X20. Here's a pic:

[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-03-2019, 06:19 AM
kramster's Avatar
kramster kramster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 5,172
Default

You are a wild man.. pretty cool... have any shots from the side or different angles?
__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Amicus, Paduak X7,X10, & X30, Spalted Chen Chen X 10,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
Blackbird: Savoy
RainSong: CH-OM, CH-WS
Journey: OF660
McPherson: Touring(Honeycomb and gold), Sable
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:38 AM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,511
Default

Interesting. What does it do to intonation?
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-03-2019, 12:35 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
Interesting. What does it do to intonation?
In this particular case, nothing. I have to say whichever tech worked on my X30 did an amazing job on the nut and saddle. The nut was perfectly cut. With my X20 I took it down a hair by filing each slot. I also took a hair off the saddle as well. This is typical though most factory setups err on the high side but kudos to who did my X30 it was like the lowest action possible without buzzing (which is how I like it)

If your nut wasn't done perfectly than adding a zero fret will give you better intonation in the first 5 frets or so. This particular job took me all of 20 minutes. Next string change I will shape the fret ends and make it look a little neater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramster View Post
You are a wild man.. pretty cool... have any shots from the side or different angles?
I took these just for you Mr. K!

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-03-2019, 02:38 PM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
In this particular case, nothing. I have to say whichever tech worked on my X30 did an amazing job on the nut and saddle. The nut was perfectly cut. With my X20 I took it down a hair by filing each slot. I also took a hair off the saddle as well. This is typical though most factory setups err on the high side but kudos to who did my X30 it was like the lowest action possible without buzzing (which is how I like it)
You've actually shortened the distance between the string breakpoint and the first fret by half the width of your 'zero fret', which, I would have thought, would make a difference - unlike the Zero Glide, which places the zero fret where the edge of the nut used to be...
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-03-2019, 02:44 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
You've actually shortened the distance between the string breakpoint and the first fret by half the width of your 'zero fret', which, I would have thought, would make a difference - unlike the Zero Glide, which places the zero fret where the edge of the nut used to be...
I'll check each note on all 6 strings up to the 5th fret when I get back home and report back.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:39 PM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
I'll check each note on all 6 strings up to the 5th fret when I get back home and report back.
That will be instructive!
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:41 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,322
Default

Ok so I just checked the tuning of each note up to the 5th fret. Now I don't have access to a strobe tuner, which would be ideal for this so I used 3 tuners simultaneously, a clip on Kliq Ubertuner, a boss pedal chromatic tuner and a DAW tuner plugin called Gtune. I checked my X20 first and each note up to the 5th fret was spot on. The X30 with the homemade zero fret was almost spot on. There were a couple notes on the D and G string that were 1-2 cents flat. I never checked this before putting the zero fret on so I will double check again on the next string change to see if there's a difference. For what it's worth these findings don't bother me. If there was a major before and after difference than it certainly would.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:48 PM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Ok so I just checked the tuning of each note up to the 5th fret. Now I don't have access to a strobe tuner, which would be ideal for this so I used 3 tuners simultaneously, a clip on Kliq Ubertuner, a boss pedal chromatic tuner and a DAW tuner plugin called Gtune. I checked my X20 first and each note up to the 5th fret was spot on. The X30 with the homemade zero fret was almost spot on. There were a couple notes on the D and G string that were 1-2 cents flat. I never checked this before putting the zero fret on so I will double check again on the next string change to see if there's a difference. For what it's worth these findings don't bother me. If there was a major before and after difference than it certainly would.
Cool - thanks for doing that! I've seen a lot over the years about compensation at the nut (remember Earvana, and the Buzz Feiten voodoo?), and I know the subject comes up periodically over in the Build and Repair section (and elsewhere, of course). People seem to get as worked up about zero frets as they do cutaways
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:53 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
Cool - thanks for doing that! I've seen a lot over the years about compensation at the nut (remember Earvana, and the Buzz Feiten voodoo?), and I know the subject comes up periodically over in the Build and Repair section (and elsewhere, of course). People seem to get as worked up about zero frets as they do cutaways
No problem! You do have me curious though if there is a before and after difference. I currently don't have any new packs of strings, I have a few on order and I've already loosened and re-tightened this particular set so many times I'm afraid I'll end up busting one. Maybe a week from now I'll do the re-check.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-03-2019, 04:47 PM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
No problem! You do have me curious though if there is a before and after difference. I currently don't have any new packs of strings, I have a few on order and I've already loosened and re-tightened this particular set so many times I'm afraid I'll end up busting one. Maybe a week from now I'll do the re-check.
Sounds good. I went digging through distant memories, and found this 1992 article from Stephen Delft, an accomplished luthier:

http://www.mimf.com/nutcomp/

He used to review guitars for a long-defunct British magazine, International Musician. He caused quite a stir back in the late 70s after publishing a review of a high-end Ibanez guitar where he determined that they had installed the nut in the wrong location, thereby leading to insoluble intonation problems. He spent a lot of time (and column inches) justifying his position, and clearly continued his research beyond that.

Point is, that a guitar is an ill-tempered beast, and it's a wonder anyone can make them play anywhere near remotely 'in tune' at all. Installing a zero fret in the way you did here is enough to disrupt the accepted geometry enough to give me pause, based on a few decades of reading and observation.

I'd love to hear your observations with a fresh set of strings!
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-03-2019, 06:14 PM
EvanB EvanB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,032
Default

In the few guitars that I made with zero frets, I placed the zero where the nut once was. The zero seemed to me more accurate than the nut, noticed a better intonation, didn't notice much difference in projection or tone.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:10 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,322
Default

I just checked my Les Paul with the zero glide nut and almost every note to the 5th fret is out a few cents. Nothing that worries me but something I should've checked before.

I couldn't resist checking the X30 without the homemade zero fret so I took it off and checked. Every note was spot on except the high e was flat 1 cent in a couple places. I will be putting it back on again next string change.

Thanks David for pointing this out. I'm not worried about the Emerald but I will revisit my Les Paul on my next days off to see if I can make it a little better.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=